So, when looking to add MSV2 to your Vanilla Aleph lists, what’s your unit of choice? Deva or Agema? Both obviously fill slightly different roles, but if you have enough points/SWC for just one, what would you bring and why? And for those leaning towards an Agema, would you stick with a barebones Agema or bring Atalanta? I love the Atalanta model and profile, but although she can always do things better than the basic model, I rarely actually ‘need’ the extra stats. Previously, I have personally preferred the barebones Agema or Atalanta as the Deva has failed a few times for me (mainly due to bad rolls) but I’ve started leaning to the Deva again more recently as NWI adds a lot of survivability. Also things I need to discover/shoot specifically with MSV2 are often closer up and not in long fire lanes, so the Spitfire range bands help.
As you've said yourself, different units for different roles. If I need a long range ARO piece, MSR (if I want to have a bit flexibility) or ML (For AROs and nothing else) Agema is the obvious choice. And if I predict the need for some midrange area control I'm taking Mk12. Deva MSV is an active turn piece. High burst weapon, 4-4 MOV, NWI to protect against crits. And it provides the same area control function as Mk12 Agema. If I have ARO duty covered and need some relatively cheap assault piece, Deva it is.
I don't play either but if I had to choose, I would go with Deva. Burst is king in Infinity and the deva's NWI is a huge bonus If playing Agema, no reason to stick with the standard one. Atalanta cost a little more for a 4 BS (and 3 WIP to detect) difference. For a burst 2 unit, it's a huge dfference. @KestrelM1 : A thousand time yes. The reason I don't use Agema or Deva : when I want MSV2, I take the marut
I never leave home without Atalanta. She's in a league of her own. Statswise she is rock solid. Well worth her points. When it comes to active turn big game hunting she is the best in the whole game. And aesthetically she is just georgeous!
You also need to consider why you're bringing MSV2. Popping warbands in ARO? Agema (or Teucer/Atalanta) Attack piece that can ignore visual modifiers? Deva, Marut Removal of enemy long range AROs via smoke+MSV combo? Agema Hunting midfield camo skirmishers? Myrmidons
I don't have a good experience with Agema for that, being only burst 2 make him very vulnerable to an unlucky roll. Plus smoke/msv combo is fully useless against 5 men core FT (even a grunt sniper in a 5 men FT will beat an agema) or MSV2 ORA piece (Gao-rael ?)
It's not fully useless since only the one who is under attack will be able to shoot back through smoke - even if he has no penalties, the rest of the fireteam won't be able to shoot back. But i agree that BS13 B2 Agema vs any BS11+3 B2 will have a tough time winning the roll. It's better to use a deva spitfire for that, or use range bands to shoot at one who is unlikely to win the roll. It's not always useless vs an MSV-2 too, since it can be used to "filter" through several ARO - only the MSV-2 will be able to shoot back, so you can try to kill him without other interferences.
I didn't know the rules for SSL2 and Fireteams firing through Smoke/White Noise worked like that. I thought that SSL2 applied to the whole fireteam so that if one member of the fireteam got shot, the entire fireteam would be able to fire through the Zero-Vis zone and hit the offending Active turn model. Just to clarify, if a Grunt Link team was shot at by say an Agema MSR through smoke, only the model being shot at would be able to respond (not taking the -6 mod from Zero-Vis), and the say, two Grunts next to him with LOF (sans Zero-Vis) would not be able to respond?
Yes Infinity rely on two things to win face to face roll : - higher burst => the agema MSR has a low burst - strong modifiers => The agema MSR can only have range and zero vis to tip the odd. Out-ranging ARO piece is often hard on many table so he is left with only the zero vis malus to win his face to face roll. Because of this loosing the -6 malus for BS Aro through zero vis zone hurts the agema a lot.
SSL2 triggers when the model is under attack, and only when under attack. You always attack a model, not a fireteam. So the smoke trick vs a fireteam is just to choose your target, since you have no additionnal mod. By the way you can do the very same by slicing the pie, except it does not requires an MSV-2. Our trusted nagas are good to kill those ARO pieces just because of that, they can "outrange" an ARO piece by being too close for them. And that's why the deva MSV-2 is good too, high burst and a nice rangeband which allows them to exploit range weaknesses.
That's not true if your opponent positions his models in a way that forces LOF to a model you don't want to shoot first. For example if it's a fireteam that includes a ML and a Sniper of some sort, getting LOF to the ML first is preferable because it's easier to put it in the +0 band but they can place the two models in such a way that you need to fight the Sniper first. Smoke lets you jump straight to the target you want. Which might be a target who's not even in the link.
Plus the option of Discover a camo marker and Fire against the linked target, since Discover is a movement action (the camo can only take it), which can be something needed if the enemy places tons of camos (Generic Nomads is now about 6+ camos plus 2 TO, I think).
I prefer the agemas long range over the devas spitfire. I can get the aggressiveness of the spitfire combined with the advantage of ODD in a myrmidon, the same myrmidon can provide smoke for the agema, and when coming face to face with opposing MSV2+, the myrmidon can take advantage of White Noise. So the Deva doesn't add much, whereas having a sniper/missile launcher/feuerbach can provide cover for the midrange troops. - But I rarely take either. Why should you, when you've got access to the Marut.
It's not the same price ^^ I just played a game with the Marut, that thing is truly powerful indeed. But you either play the Marut with the list tailored around it, or you don't play it at all, it's not a miniature you can just add to every list. But when you're used to your combi rifles, it's sure nice to see that big B4 DAM 16 shock gun :)
When we get to see that multi rifle Asura hacker at gen con, that should probably get a place on the list as well.