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Mowang or YanHuo?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Beodren, Apr 8, 2019.

?

As per topic, for typical IA list, what is better:

  1. Mowang Spitfire

    15 vote(s)
    53.6%
  2. Yan Huo HRMC

    11 vote(s)
    39.3%
  3. Neither

    2 vote(s)
    7.1%
  1. Beodren

    Beodren Well-Known Member

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    Hello citizens of Stae Empire. I have a curious question, since I am about to order myself some IA models.
    I couldn't help but notice when making list that two profiles, with quite similar role (Firepower piece) have same price. Now, I would like to post the lists I had in my mind and would love some feedback, for which choice is essentially better one:


    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    HǍIDÀO Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYǑNG Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 29)
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    YĀN HUǑ Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 54)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Or


    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    HǍIDÀO Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYǑNG Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 29)
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    MÓWÁNG (NCO) Spitfire, Flammenspeer / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 54)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    List is done with idea of handling heavy midfield activity instead of deep incursions into enemy zone. I choose engineer instead of Killer Hacker, since glue is a thing and with fairy dust/tinbot I have some resistance, and I do like idea of my fireteam being able to recover itself from reactive turn, even if just a bit, especially since midfield is place full of death and sadness.

    But the question is, is Yan Huo better choice to support specialist in the midfield, by providing very decent ability at ruining day of aro pieces,, or is our new toy Mowang with increased mobility and mimetism more attractive choice?

    I really like Mowang concept myself, but the more I run tests, it seems that bonus dice is quite helpful, especially since it is combined with multiweapon....
     
  2. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    Deppens a of the situation and the mision. I personaly choose the Yan Huo for midrange fire, saving those two Leutinent orders for Tai Sheng in duo or Haris. But in general the election deppends more of the rest of the list than quality comparations.

    In vanilla i pick more the Mowang than the Yan Huo.

    Also there isn't a Mowang model yet so buy the Yan huo and you will be able to proxy both xD
     
    Joametz likes this.
  3. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    The short version: it depends.

    The long version:

    The Spitfire Mowang will be applicable to a wider variety of tables and will be able to reposition faster. Tables with denser terrain/shorter sight lines will favor the Spitfires range bands. It also gives you more flexibility on what to use those Lieutenant Orders on. Finally, the Mowang is generally speaking more durable ( Same ARM, better BTS, NWI and Mimetism. ).
    So he'd be better for mixing it up in the midfield.

    The HRMC Yan Huo does have the longer range and burst advantage though, though until you start shooting at units with any level of MSV, the Mowang is technically the better shot. And you can overpower stuff by sheer volume of dice alone, but... a really dense table that'd require the Yan Huo to walk around a lot to actually shoot at stuff will neuter it's killing performance a bit...
    That being said, I hear he's pretty great at just being there as a brick of ''You dare leave anything out within easily accessible LoF of this thing and it's goes off the table.''
    So you could maybe try locking down an area with it via the pure threat of ''If you don't get in and get out fast, that HRMC will shoot faster than you can run away.''

    Though for the list you have shown, I'd probably prefer the Mowang, personally.
     
    Beodren likes this.
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Personally I'm currently leaning heavily towards "neither". They're expensive and their performance aren't all that great while they don't provide any attack nor defense vectors that a Zuyong doesn't already provide.

    It's difficult slotting either in after the mandatory Zuyong link and the necessary Zhencha/Louie/ZhenchaLouie.
     
    Sedral likes this.
  5. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    In my experience, they serve different roles. I don't love the Mowang as an offensive piece, but I think it does a tremendous job at scoring zones, DataTracker duty and Xenotech carrier. I also use it as a SF guard, so it's more like a defensive piece in my book.

    I think the Yan Huo HMRC is great in vanilla as an attack piece, because it gives you B5 without access to Fireteams, but I would say that role is already covered by your linked HMG.

    A suggestion: maybe a linked Shang Ji Spitfire TA is better for handling the midfield activity while your infiltrated units do the mission/go into the enemy DZ. Have you tried it? It's cheaper points-wise and it provides an extra order.
     
    Beodren likes this.
  6. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
    Warcor

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    I Lean on Mowangs. Spitfire is great for aggressively pushing and then finishing on suppression and is another NCO profile, I don't like to leave home without two NCOs or without a plan for those extra orders on the daoying. I feel IA has plenty of long range punt which is better left to a zhyong HMG in a link.
     
  7. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    A linked Shang Ji is cheaper than what?
     
  8. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    As some have said, it depends. But what that depends is, is the mission. In missions you need to move forward and take areas, Frontline, Quad Control, etc. The Mowang is great for getting into those areas and holding it down. For missions that don't require holding area, but maybe need to hit buttons or something, the Yan Huo is great for covering those items that are midway up the board or further. Acquisition, Supplies, etc. Allowing your other troops like the Zhencha to take them.
     
    Beodren likes this.
  9. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    Than either Mowang or Yan Huo, since he could potentially just add it to the link he's already fielding I mean.
     
  10. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I'd also be tempted to say "neither". Hard to fit in a 54pt beatstick when you already have the Zuyong Pain Train and Daoying, some 210pts already.

    The Yan Huo has done great work for me, Burst 5 is evil for winning firefights. But that was in Vanilla. The linked HMG gives you that B5, and I'd rather have something like an MSR (or maybe a ML in the link) than another rapid-fire gun.
     
    Beodren likes this.
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    In this case, I'd literally say "why not both". I had a test game today using a Hulang list, which failed spectacularly, but not because of the two Shang-Ji Haris models (even if they contributed heavily to the list being very concentrated in power), rather that terrain forced my Hulang to take some very unfavourable AROs and since both had only SMG they naturally didn't get good MODs against T2 TAK Army.

    In either case, what's my point? Mowang can Duo. Stick a Shang-Ji Tinbot with him, get an extra order if you fork out the extra points for the TA profile, and allow him a bit more freedom to go to town with a flamer in tow to discourage close range skirmishing or do Hot Discovers.

    I am currently experimenting with trying to make some non-PT lists that still capitalize on IA's unique features. It's more pain than the Zuyong Train delivers, but the Mowang duo can work wonders.

    (P.S. if you don't Duo with a Shanger, then do bring a Panggolin with you and stick a Haidao KHD in a Zuyong Haris or something...)
     
  12. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Isn't Mowang always better than less wang?

    [​IMG]
    .
    .
    .
    I'll let myself out.
     
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  13. Beodren

    Beodren Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone for the answers and participating in the poll! Pointing out data tracker aspect and other uses will help me with further tests.
    From my perspective midfield is where things die for the objectives, and if the game is going somewhat even, your deployment zone is where models remain mostly alive. (Until McMurrough comes)

    I really like this post, and I admit I loved Yan Huo slightly more, because of os scary it is to face against five dices. I theorized that HRMC would make a great bodyguard for Daoying, while remaining able of to provide long range fire support to the Pain Train.
    Still pointing out better sturdiness of Mowang (actual additional wound) made me realize it may be much better control piece and Xeno tech carrier.

    Poll has been upgraded by "Neither" option, since that seems to be the case. I guess Liu Xing and upgrading warcor to Rui Shi could be the superior option here. Another one for testing.

    I actually considered that, but! Shang Ji spitfire is in my opinion inferior to Zuyong HMG. I wanted to try one of the flamethrower options to add versatility and another way fo dealing with camo markers around the table... and sadly, only one flamethrower option brings additional tactical awarness to the pool is tinbot profile... that I have little use for. If the spitfire profile kept flamethrower I would be all over it, now I am on the fence.


    As above, neither option has been added. Also... Rui Shi, and minelayer Daoying for some LT shell game could be interesting and unpleasant for my enemies. if I end up going second.
    Admittedly, this list has linked ML already, with a lovely hacker to buff it in order to ruin day os some entrenched beatsticks thus I decided to go for backup Burst five, or a singular second turn beat stick, since I feel i have somewhat enough specialists to handle objectives.

    Still I think the final conclusion is simple. If table is dense as it should be, then Mowang is simply better choice. Especially to hunt down HVT.
     
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  14. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    If you expect your opponent, or if you are quite able to deterr enemies on midfield firing lanes, Yan Huo.

    If you need armored assault unit, seek-n-destroy roadblock bruiser, Mowang.

    Some might argue Suji, but the presence of Mimetism is what makes Mowang really shine. It literally boggles your opponent's mind.

    I don't know about your tables and opponents so I'm being general.
     
  15. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    On high tier tables are turned. The yanhuo HMC or multi HMG linked is almost a must. It's a damn good tool against heavy weights and TAGs
     
  16. Rafiq667

    Rafiq667 New Member

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    Has anybody tried linking the neurocinetics Yan huo with the HRMC in a duo for Burst 5 ARO? Or is there some reason that doesn't work? Probably not that competitive at 4 SWC but it would be fun to see your opponents face...
     
  17. KestrelM1

    KestrelM1 Well-Known Member

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    As much as I'd absolutely love that, it's not the Tinbot but the Deflector rule that affects other members of a fireteam. The TinBot C (Neurocinetics) only affects the user.
     
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  18. Rafiq667

    Rafiq667 New Member

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    Ah shame. Thanks for clarifying.
     
  19. Tibooper

    Tibooper Well-Known Member

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    On the Neurocinetics topic, the recent FAQ says about it:
    "The TinBot C allow use of the Twin Weapons bonus in the Reactive Turn, granting Burst 2 with Neurocinetics."

    I assume then that the Yan Huo HRL have B2 in active and reactive turn, not only in ARO since nothing say otherwise (and this was the general idea no?). He just needs V:Courage now!
     
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  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    No, Neurocinetics also sets your burst to 1 in the active turn.