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Morat agression force. Whyyyyyyyy

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Wonderman1st, Oct 4, 2020.

  1. Wonderman1st

    Wonderman1st Member

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    Hello guys. How are you feeling in N4?
    I am asking this, because i feel very bad for my miniatures and morat agression force.What has just happen?
    Why gaki and pretas are now irregular in the Special Fireteam? Why are we cut of the cheap orders? what was the point of making 2 units - oznat and gaki/preta nonplayable.
    Is it fare to compare Sogorat and Krisa Borac? Both had fullauto but now Krisa is able to join corefireteam,and Sogorat? Is just a cheaper and awfull version of Raicho.
    Why did the Rodok unit started to cost more? they were extremly playable in n3?
    Any reduce of the Yaogat cost? Maybe make them wildcards for them just to appear on the gametables?

    Lots of questions - we do hope to recieve some answers. Why morat agression force is still tier 3-4 faction? It is not fair no be "number 2" in N3 and N4. Are you forcing us only to play with suriat/vanguard/kornak + raicho list? or alldrop list. Donno guys, i think that this is no good=)

    thank you, sincerely yours
     
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  2. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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  3. Wonderman1st

    Wonderman1st Member

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    I do think that gents in that discussion topik didn’t manage to find out what changes did the other armies recieve. OSS now has deva wildcard in the daikini link team with msv2 and spitfire, Nvi and shock Imm. It was rather weak army:) why aren’t we able to use yaogats in such way:)?
     
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  4. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    Devas are not shock immune.
     
  5. Machival

    Machival Well-Known Member

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    And Devas always could join Dakini Link Teams.
     
  6. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Also, Devas and Yaogats are very different units, despite one Deva having MSV2/Spitfire. Different armies have different tools, and use them in a different way. OSS can't stick an NCO into every fireteam. OSS can actually be affected by Loss of Lieutenant. OSS is vulnerable to heavy hacking. MAF has better AD troopers, powerful CQB, access to Smoke (which is probably exactly why Yaogats can't join every link)...
     
    #6 Stiopa, Oct 5, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  7. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    I'm SUPER excited about MAF and the changes (except Rodoks). But then... I'm not focusing on what they didn't get. I'm focusing on what they did. Some standouts for me are:

    Raicho - A built in Tinbot and a steep price drop. The HRL is an awesome ARO gun. Immunity to crits. This dude is even better than the last update we got for him.
    Rasyat - With the VanZant drop option, we finally get some consistent tricks to make up for lack of camo. MA2 AND NBW are SWEET on this guy. He got to keep Stealth too. Just a scary dude all around. PLUS, we got a Specialist option.
    Zerats - These are my FAVORITE. SOOO MANY BEAUTIFUL CHANGES. Basically a whole new unit.
    Kornak - Strategos with +1LT is beautiful. You can be hyper aggressive too since the rest of the Army doesn't care about Loss of Lt.
    Taryots - New and stupid fun. Another AD Specialist.
    Yaogats - The +1B MSR is a thing of beauty.

    Across the board, everyone got a damned Heavy Pistol and most units picked up +3 BTS.
     
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  8. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    i dont think MAF is in a terrible position - their lists seems a little more focused on the Suryat/vanguard core now with a big incentive to take the Raicho/drop troops.

    Ruining the hungry link and then deciding to keep it in the game was a bold move though.
     
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  9. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Yeah, mate, I'm sorry but I think you're bugging on this one. Plus, you kinda posted on the wrong section.

    I put the monkeys on the table this last saturday and scored one victory vs MO and one loss vs Shas. Just playing for fun.

    As someone who played mostly MAF since I joined infinity in the beginning of N3, this is the very best version of the army we ever had. This was the first update that actually fixed some glaring mistakes on our listbuilding (lack of agressive LT options, lack of midfield presence, weak ARO options) without changing the faction identity AND while also giving us several new and creative ways to deploy force with MAF.

    It's good. give it a try. It's really good.
     
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  10. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    That Yaogat sniper is formidable. B4 MSR in active turn will tear some large holes into your opposition.
     
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  11. Wonderman1st

    Wonderman1st Member

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    Ok.
    Yaogat is cool, but how much does the linked yaogat costs?
    133 - the most cheap version with 2 raks and without cornak.Is it ok for the guys with 1 wound, bs 12 in attack?
    Drop suits - nice, cool, but let’s calculate :
    1. 22 points model
    2. Evo- 18 points
    We jump on 15, than opponent decides to dodge - over 50% sucsess. If he decides to shoot - about 55% sucsess. What is the total percentage of sucsess? Moreover - we spend 3 orders on that trick. Evo, drop, shoot
    Rasiat- nice lovely.
    Sogorat?
    Raicho was nice always:)
    Do you know how much does the deathstar with suriats and kornak cost?
    All I want to say - is that morats are still tier 3 army. And I want to know why that happened. We were tier 3 in n3, now we will be tier 3-4 in n4.
    Try to play against varuna, nomads, kosmoflot,oss - find out lots of interesting details
     
    #11 Wonderman1st, Oct 5, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  12. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    To get the Burst 4 MSR that’s being discussed, you only need a Haris, which will be 79pt with the cheapest Raktoraks. Although personally I’d take one Raktorak and one Yoagat with Boarding Shotgun to have a close defence option who can still see through Smoke, or use his Panzerfaust through Smoke if the Sniper goes down.

    1. 22pt is one of the cheapest Regular Combat Jump units in the game, so that’s good. ;-)
    2. The EVO is completely optional, but is a good option anyway, especially if you’re taking a Raicho and want to make it even more unhackable. And thanks to Controlled Jump being an ARO, you probably won’t even need to spend an Order on it.
    2a. Why are you landing in front of someone?
    2b. Dodging a template from out of LoF has a -3 MOD, so won’t be over 50% for most targets.
     
  13. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    First, claiming army tiers in infinity is a bogus exercise. Mission variation, composition and listbuilding is a lot more important than army. Just look at how we had two sattelites last season that were won by Caledonia and FRRM, both considered tier-5 trash.

    Also, Why in the name of Kotoya's hairy balls are you running a 5-monkey suryat team? They have haris built-in now. This means you can reliably put a 3 order generating Suryat in the link. Or a 3 order generating Kornak flanked by a 2 order generating hmg with tinbot and a rocket launcher. Yeah, it's 120 points, but it's also 6 orders generated by 3 models. That is really, rally awesome.

    Sogarat is less of a face wrecker than the kriza? Yeah. But it lands harder shots, tanks better shots and it just will. not. die. At PH 14 any paramedic has the same chance of bringing this dude back up as Doc Worm. Plus, +1 DAM has no counter. That DAM16 AP HMG will hurt whatever gets hit, and the extra DAM means enemies have less chance of tanking the shot.

    Oh, and daturazi also got buffed out the wazoo. The base profile is now a total close combat BEAST with CC23, MA4 and Berserk. This means our witch bois crit on 14 with DAM17 DA blows, and can just chose to berserk to guarantee a hit. For 14 points? DAMN, son, I'm taking two of these in every list and they NEVER dissapoint.

    Oh, you want more? How about the new and improved Zerat with -6 mimetism? She can be a hacker, killer hacker or FO if you need a forward specialist, or she can bring in a big gun for only 27 points. Big gun with shock ammo, burst 4, behind an -6 penalty in the middle of the field? Man, she was already a beast with -3 mimetism, now she's just nasty. Oh, and she also has a MINELAYER profile. Yeah. There's finally a reason to take max AVA of these ladies.

    And how about the Rasyat? Lovely? Dude, that's a BS12 spitfire that can drop in ON THE ENEMY DEPLOYMENT ZONE. Oh, and said spitfire is also a CC beast with D charges, natural born warrior and a DA CCW. AND smoke grenades. This guy isn't 'lovely' he's the goddamn boogeyman.

    I'm not gonna sing the praises of the Raicho and the other dudes, people already did that for me.

    TL/DR: MAF is Badass, mate. Finally.
     
  14. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    I totally forgot to add this as a generic benefit to MAF as a whole. With the global changes to a lot of things, all those "extras" we pay for (Veteran, higher PH) that were for "corner case" things... Well those corners are a lot bigger now.
     
  15. Wonderman1st

    Wonderman1st Member

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    Sounds like religious troops speech:)) and yess, I want moar:)
    The problem of Harris msv2 is just 12 ballistik even on msv 2.
    What if main target of threesome of suriats would be in target and mimetism - ballistik 10.
    Zerat in mimetism (-6) - we have to give it a chance:)
    The problem of cc clash is that it now turned out to be a casino:) I die against another 1 die:)

    And by the way - if after the first big tournament morats will be I will send you a bottle of fine vodka:) but still you can not deny the great amount of problems in maf:)
     
    #15 Wonderman1st, Oct 5, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  16. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    And? With Burst 4 Dam15 DA ammo, that’s enough to beat anything short of an enemy MULTI Sniper or equivalent, with full Fireteam Core bonuses behind it. And in that situation, my suggestion of the Panzerfaust then kicks in via Coordinated Order as the Sniper will still be on B2, while the Panzerfaust and whoever else fires will probably be making Normal Rolls.

    1. That’s not how the odds work. A Dāturazi rolling a 1 against most targets is still likely to win.
    2. For any other target, please read the N4 Berserk Skill.
     
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  17. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    They're mostly valid complaints.


    I agree, aside from not generating orders, it will be parasitizing orders from a diminished first order pool of ~7 orders. It initially looks like a cheap way to buff wildcards but MAF wildcards just aren't that great, even before you see the ridiculous min maxed choices available to other factions. Hunting parties are still cool but I don't think I'll ever feel like I have the points to spare on one.

    I feel the same, and throw Yanhuo into the mix. CB seemed to show curious restraint in adjusting big heavy infantry that no one ever used or complained about being over powered, then threw this restraint out the window for the Kriza borac, which was already an easy pick that dominates tables. Why? Others have attributed this to favoritism.

    They were already a fairly optimised unit that got a bit faster and are beneficiaries of the shotgun changes. B4 DTWs are very rare. I'm not so worried by this.

    Yaogat changes are fine in my opinion, and they benefit a lot from other wildcard choices.


    Overall, I think the update has made Morats playable where I never felt I could make a 300 point list that covered all the bases I could easily squeeze into 300 points with Yu Jing, JSA, and Ikari. Competitively, they have been elevated from garbage to rubbish. The power gap still exists, it has just been moved along. I have great admiration for the players who can do well with them.
     
    #17 the huanglong, Oct 5, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  18. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    You bugging, mate? A daturazi vs a Non-MA fighter will have much increased odds of winning the FTF, because he has a +6 to the roll. That means if you roll a 1 your oponent still has to roll an 8+ to beat your murder monkey. And if they have MA, then just berserk and screw it.

    Yeah, I'm gonna second @ijw on the MSV Sniper here. 4 shots at BS12 with an AP DAM15 gun is pretty good. Plus, even if the oponent has MSV, you can still sit in smoke just to make sure you don't get AROed by everyone and their mom.

    Oh, your target has mimetism? You know what MAF has out of the wazoo? Templates. And Suryats now run like rabid motherfuckers. Run in, flank, torch the dude with your flamers. Or send in a daturazi/krakot/anything.

    By the way, for those comparing the Sog with the Gamma: gamma has+1 BS and +1 burst on the sog. Sog has better CC (not that good, I agree), but also better DAM on all it's weapons, and a goddamn DTW as an extra defensive boost, on top of being a veteran, which means no Isolation for our big boi.

    Man, I'm fired up with N4. Hard. Like, there are some really bad decisions in there (I am deeply unsatisfied with the Hungries thing. it was one of my favorite links ever). But the Good outweighs the bad so hard here it's not even funny. Oh, no, it is funny, because I love it!

    Oh, and there is a silver lining on the Oznat: the changes to impetuous+drop in price make the stalker unit a better proposition now. And to add to it, she's also got MA1 and boosted CC to make her better at facewrecking stuff. Drop smoke, close in with the Angry lady, and watch her tear apart anything that's not a CC specialist.

    the only real dud on this update are Vanguards in my opinion, but I never held them in any regard anyways, so whatever.
     
  19. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    The Zerat KHD is also immune to Oblivion, which is the strong ARO choice on a basic HD. You get to force some bad choices on enemy hackers with that.
     
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  20. Wonderman1st

    Wonderman1st Member

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    Why are you keep telling me that ballistics 12 is omg?
    You keep telling words like amazing, wonderful, but you do not calculate. Any marksman wipes out yaogat on aro in harris with about 50% chance, and yao has only about 20% to sucseed. Check for example ork from linked team. Just use your calculator.
    Moreover. How do you see the attacker yaogat with sniper rifle. What if - just imaginge the situation, that there is no ARO on the roof? what then? we will go with our multi sniper rifle on 0 distance? lol guys. Yaogat is nice in shooting stupid aro, but if you see stupid aro from the opponent, you dont' need yao=)
    Suryats always were our workhorses - reliable and waterproof, like AK-74=) but they can only join the vanguards. We do not want to use them without core fireteam, because primary targets often has mimetism -3 ARO suddenly make them shoot on 10.
    Sogorat has ballistik 14, he is very nice. (But he shoots on 11s in TRbot or other mimetiks guys). Reliable as frag, but worse than other factions have. CC potencial is ridiculos to compare - there is no difference between CC 15 and CC 20 - you just roll the dice, and if you are fragged up with the dices - nothing you can do.
    Saying honestly - I like N4. The rules has become better and easier to understand. Currently we are translating the rulebook of Code1 and N4 in Russian to spread the system. I have another army, also beautifully painted - I just fell in love with this redface monkeys and i am really upset when i look on the other factions and see wildcard msv1 or 2 5-dice attacker in the cheap link, 6 dice in active turn instead of fullauto, cheap regular orders just to take more powerfull units (i still do not understand why do Y Cheeng have zombies), Polaris bear team, combat jumpers with 2 wounds, plenty of wildcards that go in EVERY core fireteam of the sectorial, even to MI ones.
    You keep admiring Zerat - have you seen SAS guys?
     
    #20 Wonderman1st, Oct 6, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
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