1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra PolĂ­tica de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Miyamoto Mushashi in JSA. Redundant?

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Ogid, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    751
    What is your opinion on Mushashi? I personally like the miniature, but his profile leave me a bit cold and it's hard to include in any list.

    The guy is a beast in CC, but he brings 0 utility (no marker state, no smoke, no mines, no koalas...) and it's pretty redundant in the faction. His only range weapon is a flash pulse (that he can use with his mighty WIP 15... talking about bloat). He has "fake" 2 W, but he is vulnerable to shock and viral.

    It's also a bit dissapointing that he is presented as a good sword but nothing more; real Musashi wrote the book of five rings (which in part talk about strategy), spent wandering almost his entire life and was known for using unortodox tactic to win some duels.

    Mushashi alone is a big no-no, specially the irregular profile. For rushing the bikers (Yojimbo / Kuroshi) are way faster and his CC is good enough; Ninjas/Oniwabans start right where you need them, are almost as good as him at killing enemies and have smoke/camo markers.

    The Tanko Haris let you drag 2 HIs, give B2 with the Flash pulse and let you use some real BS weapons while advancing; it's not bad. But a total immunity Karakuki Haris with a Domaru is just better AND have specialists to button pushing while advancing.

    I personally do find him redundant in JSA; and it's a shame because Mushashi is a very cool model and I like the real Musashi fluff. If I would have to change him, I'd probably go with something like this:


    Miyamoto Mushashi
    MOV 15-10 CC25 BS9 PH14 WIP14 ARM1 BTS3 W1 S2 A1 // WB Cube Irregular
    MA5, V:NWI, Kinematica2, Dual Wield
    • (Forward Deployment 2, CH:Mimetism) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (AHD Upgrade:Cybermask) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse // Pistol, E/M CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Regular, Haris, FO, Assault) Chain Rifle // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • FTO (Regular, Holoproyector 1, Assault) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Tankos
    Special Fireteam. Miyamoto Mushashi FTO can join Domaru Butai Fireteam
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.

    Miyamoto Mushashi v.2 version (Five Rings Mushashi)
    MOV 15-10 CC24 BS9 PH13 WIP15 ARM1 BTS3 W1 S2 A1 // WB Cube Regular
    MA5, V:NWI, Total Immunity, Kinematica1, Strategos3, CH:Mimetism, FO, Holoproyector 1
    • Chain Rifle, Antipersonal Mines, Nimbus and Smoke grenades // Pistol, EXP CCW
    • Lieutenant (Advanced Command) Chain Rifle, Antipersonal Mines, Nimbus and Smoke grenades // Pistol, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam. Wildcard character: Miyamoto Mushashi v.2 can join any Fireteam of this Sectorial Army.
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.

    The changes of the base profile try to make better his lone wolf profile; deploying him near of the center of the table, or giving him extra ways to handle enemies and a marker states in exange to making him vulnerable to enemy KHDs. The FO in the Haris will give an specialist to that Haris and the extra links options with Domarus will also help to include him; and tricks you can do with Holo 1 really fits him. The new v.2 profile try to represent the more tactic Mushashi giving him the Strategos3 and Advanced Command abilities and Wilcard rule.
    I don't know if these changes would make him too powerful tho, but i'd love to see some changes in his profile.

    After the feedback in this thread:
    the normal mushashi is probably the closest to the changed proposed, in the v.2 I went more wild. I've added Frenzy for 2 reasons, first one is min-maxing the price of course :P, the second is lore. Musashi could be savage sometimes.

    Miyamoto Mushashi
    MOV 15-10 CC25 BS9 PH14 WIP15 ARM1 BTS3 W1 S2 A1 // WB, Cube, Irregular, Frenzy.
    MA5, Natural Born Warrior, V:NWI, Kinematica2, Dual Wield, Forward Observer
    • Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Regular, Haris) Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • FTO (Regular, Assault) Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Tankos.
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Karakukis
    Special Fireteam. Miyamoto Mushashi FTO can join any Fireteam: Duo of this Sectorial army.
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.

    Miyamoto Mushashi v.2 version (Mobility version)
    MOV 15-10 CC25 BS9 PH13 WIP14 ARM0 BTS0 W1 S2 A1 // WB, Cube, Irregular, Frenzy
    MA5, Natural Born Warrior, Dual Wield, V:NWI, Kinematica2, Hyper-Dynamics2, Multiterrain
    • (Assault, Mov 15-15) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Smoke and Nimbus Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • FTO (Regular, Wanderer) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam. Miyamoto Mushashi FTO can join any Fireteam: Duo of this Sectorial army.
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.

    Wanderer: (AUTOMATIC SKILL; Movement, Optional): While the user is in a Fireteam, all fireteam members change their MOV for the user's MOV value. In addition, they also benefice from the user Multiterrain ability (if the user has it).
    Miyamoto Mushashi
    MOV 15-10 CC22 BS9 PH14 WIP15 ARM1 BTS3 W1 S2 A1 // WB, Cube, Irregular, Frenzy
    MA5, Natural Born Warrior, V:NWI, Kinematica2, Dual Wield
    • Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Regular, Haris, Forward Observer) Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • FTO (Regular, Forward Observer, CH:Mimetism) Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Tankos.
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Karakukis
    Special Fireteam. Miyamoto Mushashi FTO can join any Fireteam: Duo of this Sectorial army.
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.

    Miyamoto Mushashi v.2 version (Mobility version)

    MOV 15-10 CC25 BS9 PH15 WIP14 ARM0 BTS0 W1 S2 A1 // WB, Cube, Irregular, Frenzy
    MA5, Dual Wield, V:NWI, Kinematica2, Hyper-Dynamics1
    • (Assault, AD1:Paracutist) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Nimbus Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Impetuous, AD1:Paracutist, Forward Observer) Chain Rifle, Nimbus Grenades // Pistol, E/M CCW, Stun CCW
    • FTO (Regular, ODD, Multiterrain) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Nimbus and Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam. Miyamoto Mushashi FTO can join any Fireteam: Duo of this Sectorial army.
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.
    Note: Stun CCW (DAM PH, Ammo N+Stun, Trait CC)

    Somehow I failed to recall Natural Born Warrior also give an attack MOD...
    Miyamoto Mushashi
    MOV 15-10 CC22 BS9 PH14 WIP15 ARM1 BTS3 W1 S2 A1 // WB, Cube, Irregular
    MA5, Natural Born Warrior, V:NWI, Kinematica2, Dual Wield
    • (Frenzy) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Frenzy, Minelayer) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Frenzy, Medic) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Holoproyector L2, Forward Deployment 2) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Smoke and Nimbus Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (KHD, Forward Deployment 2) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Frenzy, Assault, AD2) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Impetuous, Medic, AD2) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Nimbus Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Regular, Frenzy, Haris, Medic) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • FTO (Regular, Frenzy, Medic, CH:Mimetism) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Tankos.
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Karakukis
    Special Fireteam. Miyamoto Mushashi FTO can join any Fireteam: Duo of this Sectorial army.
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.


    Do you like Musashi as it is? Does it have a place in a competitive JSA list? Would you like his profile changed?
     
    #1 Ogid, Jul 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
    zapp likes this.
  2. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    1,861
    He would be fine if he had smoke in the post-Saito-Specialist JSA. One reliable, cheap smoker in the DZ would be fine, and he has an irregular order he would get to use.

    I disagree that WIP15 is bloat, a WIP15 Flash Pulse is basically his only survivability -- it's better than his dodge in many cases, and he doesn't have any visual mods to protect him. I would love wildcard on the Regular training version of the profile, but I don't think it would be very thematic.

    As for Lt/Strategos/Advanced Command, none of those are very thematic for Musashi as a historical figure, since he was a duelist first and a strategist much later. If we were going to get a Strategoes/Advanced Command/Inspiring Leadership model in JSA, it would make more sense for it to be Nobunaga Oda or Tokugawa Ieyasu (in the first two cases) or maybe Masamune Date (in the last case).
     
    Balewolf, Abrilete, ijw and 1 other person like this.
  3. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    751
    I find it bloaty, leave him with WIP 13/14 and give him Hyper-Dinamics 1 or CH:Mimetism, it'd fit him more and it'd be also more powerful.

    I agree that full commander profile would fit other characters more... idk, maybe Strategos 1 and Inspiring Leadership could make the trick for him
     
  4. Paradur

    Paradur FukurĂ´ Keibi
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    338
    Hmm actually if you could link him with karikuri I think it would solve a lot..
     
    Balewolf, Abrilete and Ogid like this.
  5. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    751
    Yep, the smoke and the Karakuki link would be good ways to fix him. I would take him instead of a Domaru in some lists.

    If it wouldn't inflate the cost much more, i'd also add Natural Born Warrior to his profile. His only strenght is his CC, but there are models that can take on him (an uberfall for example). With Natural Born Warrior he would be untouchable in CC, and taking in count all his dissadvantages it'd be a nice extra.

    About the commander profile... thinking about it maybe it's not the right call. Inspiring leadership doesn't fit him well, he was more like an hermit than a leader; he knew about tactics but that wasn't his speciality... So maybe Strategos 1 in the best case.
     
  6. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    751
    After the feedback of this thread, version 2.0 of the profiles; the normal mushashi is probably the closest to the changed proposed, in the v.2 I went more wild. I've added Frenzy for 2 reasons, first one is min-maxing the price of course :P, the second is lore. Musashi could be savage sometimes.

    Miyamoto Mushashi
    MOV 15-10 CC25 BS9 PH14 WIP15 ARM1 BTS3 W1 S2 A1 // WB, Cube, Irregular, Frenzy
    MA5, Natural Born Warrior, V:NWI, Kinematica2, Dual Wield, Forward Observer
    • Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Regular, Haris) Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • FTO (Regular, Assault) Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Tankos.
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Karakukis
    Special Fireteam. Miyamoto Mushashi FTO can join any Fireteam: Duo of this Sectorial army.
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.

    Miyamoto Mushashi v.2 version (Mobility version)

    MOV 15-10 CC25 BS9 PH13 WIP14 ARM0 BTS0 W1 S2 A1 // WB, Cube, Irregular, Frenzy
    MA5, Natural Born Warrior, Dual Wield, V:NWI, Kinematica2, Hyper-Dynamics2, Multiterrain
    • (Assault, Mov 15-15) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Smoke and Nimbus Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • FTO (Regular, Wanderer) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam. Miyamoto Mushashi FTO can join any Fireteam: Duo of this Sectorial army.
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.

    Wanderer: (AUTOMATIC SKILL; Movement, Optional): While the user is in a Fireteam, all fireteam members change their MOV for the user's MOV value. In addition, they also benefice from the user Multiterrain ability (if the user has it).

    EDIT: Added Spoiler
     
    #6 Ogid, Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  7. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    809
    Sadly musashi's flash pulse is one of our better long range weapon choices lmao. He is high risk high reward for sure. If he makes it up the table he will be a CC monster. I like using yojimbo with him and have those 2 go up one side of the board.
     
    Pen-dragon likes this.
  8. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    615
    Never took him in competitive lists for the reasons you mentioned above.
     
    Ogid likes this.
  9. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    751
    He is not bad with the flash light... but I can include a regular REM of 8 point to do that in ARO, and in active turn I'm sure I can find something better to expend my orders than a B1 non letal weapon...
    He is very good in CC; but for the dissadvantages he has, he should be the absolute best; and he isn't.
    An uberfall for example, same price, also irregular (but extremelly impetuous tho), in exange you get ECLIPSE grenades, CLIMBING PLUS, some real BS weapons, total immunity, pupniks to clean mines or increase your B in CC and Natural Born Warrior to counter absolutely everything in CC (you have Berserker and want to trade? Not today sir!). If an uberfall get to CC with Mushashi, they will destroy him (all his CC special skills disabled, CC reduced to 22, 1 dice versus 4... good luck mushashi)
    And then we have mushashi... 0 utility, suboptimal links, a ton of dissadvantages and not even the best in what he does... Smoke, Natural Born Warrior and Frenzy to lower the price would be a good way to enable him. He would still have a ton of dissadvantages, but at least some utility, decent price and he couldn't be countered in CC for models way more versatile than him.

    Exactly what happens to me, I love the lore and the model is super cool; but I never find a place for him; so I decided to compare him with the rest of the army and then I was like "Ok, makes sense"
     
  10. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

    Joined:
    May 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,000
    Likes Received:
    6,485
    The thing that taunts me the most about Musashi is that Tanko can link with him... And Domaru... And noone else.

    Tanko in Keisotsu would do so much to give JSA a fighting chance at range. I keep looking at that Musashi + Tanko haris, thinking about it as a cheap way to get +1 Burst Tanko on the table, then dismissing it because it's still not a fantastic link.
     
    Ogid, Abrilete and meikyoushisui like this.
  11. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    751
    Well, It's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks like this.
    I hope CB see this and give some love to our favourite tramp and our links!

    Another profile change:
    Miyamoto Mushashi
    MOV 15-10 CC22 BS9 PH14 WIP15 ARM1 BTS3 W1 S2 A1 // WB, Cube, Irregular, Frenzy
    MA5, Natural Born Warrior, V:NWI, Kinematica2, Dual Wield
    • Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Regular, Haris, Forward Observer) Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • FTO (Regular, Forward Observer, CH:Mimetism) Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Tankos.
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Karakukis
    Special Fireteam. Miyamoto Mushashi FTO can join any Fireteam: Duo of this Sectorial army.
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.

    Miyamoto Mushashi v.2 version (Mobility version)

    MOV 15-10 CC25 BS9 PH15 WIP14 ARM0 BTS0 W1 S2 A1 // WB, Cube, Irregular, Frenzy
    MA5, Dual Wield, V:NWI, Kinematica2, Hyper-Dynamics1
    • (Assault, AD1:Paracutist) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Nimbus Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Impetuous, AD1:Paracutist, Forward Observer) Chain Rifle, Nimbus Grenades // Pistol, E/M CCW, Stun CCW
    • FTO (Regular, ODD, Multiterrain) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Nimbus and Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam. Miyamoto Mushashi FTO can join any Fireteam: Duo of this Sectorial army.
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.
    Note: Stun CCW (DAM PH, Ammo N+Stun, Trait CC)

    Somehow I failed to recall Natural Born Warrior also give an attack MOD...
     
    #11 Ogid, Jul 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  12. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2018
    Messages:
    517
    Likes Received:
    426
    Yeah, unfortunately I've also only ever really considered him for the Tanko Haris, and while it's ok, it's also not the strongest thing one could be doing with those points. Typically whenever i'm thinking "should i bring musashi' it's almost always better to take Neko instead.
     
  13. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    751
    I also have that feeling, Mushashi has a really hard time competing with the Karakukis Haris and without the link the 24 points irregular profile can't compete with the other solo profiles.
    MA5 CC25 is impressive, but unless the other player want to suicide, they won't engage a full core with him. And he lacks the tools to close the gap. Even the humble CC23 MA3 26 points Ninja will have more chances (and will use less orders) to reach b2b with an isolated target.
    The 28 points regular profile alone is too expensive to be a cheerleader and also has an SWC cost...

    I like the idea of the super duelist, even more when inspired by Musashi, but he need some updates to his weapons and tactics to be useful in Infinity. Two swords and that's it could be useful in Feudal Japan, but as a solo piece in Infinity, he is an expensive one trick pony, and his trick isn't that good.

    But also his profile isn't well optimized. If he is non impetuous (however frenzy would fit him and the cost reduction would be very good for him), at least give him some extra tool to use that non-impetuous characteristic; the CH wouln't be thematic but Holoproyector would fit him (however I'd rather an ODD plus frenzy to reduce the point cost of all the bloat he carries).
    Natural Born Warrior just destroy him, I'd give it to him (and reduce CC to 22 to balance it a bit); so if he is supposed to be good in CC, at least he can be good at that.
    If he is going to have a WIP15 at least give him something to do with it, a KHD could fit him (a modern "dueling" field plus some utility) or even a Doctor/Engineer/operative specialist profile (he was supposed to study all arts, not only how to duel). The Doctor profile would be great for him, he has NWI so he could patch himself and would give the Tankos an specialist and extra toughness to compete with the Karakuki haris (while still being vulnerable to shock/viral)
    Or also a way to reach the CC in an order efficient way, he is supposed to be on their own, however he is forced to deploy with the rest of the army, AD1/2 or FL1/2 would fit him and his "on his own" style.
    Or some utility (mines, koalas, grenades, a G:Sync rem...)

    I see so much potential in this model, but right now is very hard to justify playing him.
     
    #13 Ogid, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  14. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    751
    Miyamoto Mushashi
    MOV 15-10 CC22 BS9 PH14 WIP15 ARM1 BTS3 W1 S2 A1 // WB, Cube, Irregular
    MA5, Natural Born Warrior, V:NWI, Kinematica2, Dual Wield
    • (Frenzy) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Frenzy, Minelayer) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Frenzy, Medic) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Holoproyector L2, Forward Deployment 2) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Smoke and Nimbus Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (KHD, Forward Deployment 2) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Frenzy, Assault, AD2) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Antipersonal Mines, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Impetuous, Medic, AD2) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Nimbus Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • (Regular, Frenzy, Haris, Medic) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    • FTO (Regular, Frenzy, Medic, CH:Mimetism) Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse, Smoke Grenades // Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Tankos.
    Special Fireteam:Haris Miyamoto Mushashi Haris + 2 Karakukis
    Special Fireteam. Miyamoto Mushashi FTO can join any Fireteam: Duo of this Sectorial army.
    Note: There only can be 1 Miyamoto Musashi in each Army List.
     
  15. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    432
    I've only played a few games with JSA so far, but I do like him in a Tanko haris. His mobility lets him clean up and hold things late game, and since he doesn't suffer the HI penalty, he can split off from the haris to sneak around hacking threats.

    That said, it's pretty obvious that he's quite poorly optimized.

    First thing's first, smoke or eclipse would go a long way to help his situation. And with how CB's been pushing min/max'd profiles lately, a Frenzy discount is unfortunately mandatory. Also, since every character and their dog is getting it now, make his regular profile a wildcard.

    I'd be against mimetism or ODD. While extremely potent, it's a boring upgrade that does nothing to actually give him any identity. I'm also leery about the idea of giving him a specialist profile.

    AD1 would be an interesting addition to his irregular profile. I mean, he is famous for showing up to a duel on a boat and beating his opponent to death with the oar.

    Really, I don't think Musashi needs a bunch of stuff to make him worthwhile. Just better access to a good delivery system, and something to do when he's not cutting people to bits. The only other thing I'd potentially give him in excess of this would potentially be NBW, if only to cement him as the CC king of Infinity (although it's pretty well known that Uberfallkommando are just kind of bullshit). But even that I don't feel is absolutely necessary.
     
    Ogid likes this.
  16. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2018
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    813
    Yeah, it is sad that he seems only viable in the Tanko Haris,
    but then the Karakuri Haris is so much better.

    It's a bit like the Shikami -
    hard to bring up to the front were those melee fighters need to be...

    Well, it won't benefit from his WIP 15, but just a MedKit would be enough to make him a specialist, and give him at least a chance to patch himself (or others) up. But just a MedKit can't be that expensive point-wise...

    Or just give him Infiltration (without Marker state).
     
    Ogid likes this.
  17. Vaulsc

    Vaulsc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    279
    I'm a big advocate of the plain irregular profile. It takes a lot of game-understanding to play him into the right situations however. You are looking for midfield positions to set him up in with his speed. Then he creates problems by using the benefits of his profile. High Phys, chain rifle, flashpulse. If you can get to something 6 inches away, his combat ability can get around any kind of FTF situation, whether it is suppression fire, a shotgun, link team, or whatever. I wouldn't recommend this style for newer players. It's about looking at the table holistically, and finding the right spot for him based on game knowledge.
     
    Weathercock and Ayadan like this.
  18. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2018
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    164
    Someone forgot to tell him, 'Don't bring knife to a gun fight' ...yea, super close knife can be more effective than gun perhaps, thing is, starting on the opposite table edge is not 'super close'. He is a relic of the past, from the time the Samurai ruled the land...unfortunately for him, that time passed long ago.
     
    Ogid likes this.
  19. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    751
    This, and the frenzy would also fit him like a glove.

    ODD is boring but i'd go a long way enabling him to try ballsy approachs, and he is also known for using thinks like the position of the sun, insult adversary or showing hours late to gain advantage in its duels; so I don't see him giving away the ODD for being not honourable enough if given the opportunity.
    And I like the idea of the specialist profile, Domaru who are much more rigid have one, more reason for a guy known for being versatile. An Doctor would be only 1 extra point over a just a Medikit and would offer him a ton of things (WIP15, rerolls, G:Sync...)

    Yep he needs something to be where he needs to be using less actions. Infiltration would be great on him, but maybe too powerful; you could just risk the roll and using him to just eat a TAG or even a link with FL1+ for much less points than a Oniwaban; I like more AD, it gives him options but also some counterplay.
    And some utility for him would be necessary.

    I'd give him NBW but reducing his CC to compensate it; it would also depends on the other changes of his profile but I'd see it both fitting and necessary

    I really hope I could think as you but for me it's unplayable outside of a link (and his link cannot compete with the Karakuki). Starting in the DZ of the typical 12 inches deployment zone means he should expend 2 orders moving just to reach the middle of the table (and that in the best scenario). He is also not that tought to get away with double movement; his dodge isn't bad but it's not outstanding and as he will be looking for the CC combat he will get a lot of shots in non-cover; even if he has 2 wonds thanks to NWI, anything with shock (which is pretty frecuent in the midfield) will dead stop him (pun intended).
    And if for some reason he won't perform well in the mid field (enemy playing defensive), lots of mines, lot of MSV2... then you have an irregular model that won't do anything.
    If I want something dead in the mid field, the basic ninja for 26 points can start within 1 or 2 orders of that target (instead of the 3-4 of Mushashi), getting to CC easily thanks to TO, and for most targets the CC 23 MA3 DA would be good enough most of the time; and in the worst case I can cancel Hidden deployment, leave him being a threat in the midfield and just get the order in the following turns.

    +1 He need to learn some new tricks (and some profile engineering) badly
     
  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,919
    Likes Received:
    9,323
    Or Yojimbo, for smoke.