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Mistake in the Sekban profiles?

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Urist, Jan 18, 2023.

  1. Urist

    Urist Well-Known Member

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    I was brainstorming some Qapu Khalqi lists for an upcoming tournament, and I found a weird inconsistency in the Sekban profiles. Normally basic models with a Lieutenant profile have a "decoy" profile, a basic profile the same as the LT profile except not a Lieutenant, as to not signal who your LT is. Like the Khawarij FO and Khawarij Lieutenant FO, or the Muyib Smoke Launcher and Muyib Smoke Lieutenant. But the Sekban Lieutenant is obvious, it's the only profile with just an AP rifle. The other AP Rifle profile is a Special Operative, showing it's not the Lieutenant to anyone who looks at your print out list.

    Maybe it's been missed because few people play QK, and Sekban aren't a popular choice, but it's just odd. Why not make the Sekban Lieutenant a 24 point Spec Ops like the normal version? Kinda like when they merged the Khawarij FO and Khawarij Lieutenant profiles last year.
     
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  2. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    I've been playing some QK lately and I noticed the same thing! I was about to post about it, but it seems You've beat me to it! :D

    A weird oversight, and one that deserves a look for sure! Then again, I'm afraid that Qapu Khalqi is not at the top of CB's "to do" -list... Maybe we can weaponize this mistake in the meantime by disguising a non-Lieutenant Hafza as a must-be-Liutenant-Sekban? ;D
     
  3. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    That mistake is as old as the new profiles for Sekban. Sadly CB made the same bug as with Khawarij earlier, when the LT profile was obvious.
    Maybe they'll change it in future. Sekbans in QK maybe aren't the first pick, but are quite good, reasonably priced, with good stats (BS13), 360 Visor and NCO everywhere. I used few of them in my QK armies.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
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  4. Mechanokrat

    Mechanokrat Active Member

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    Thanks for pointing this out!

    I was really tempted to use the Sekban Lieutenant a few times, even without specialist. A wildcard with NCO is an interesting proposition, and might be a nice upgrade of a Hafza Lieutnant in some cases. The AP rifle and chain colts also complement a HMG or Spitfire main piece quite nicely. But in the end, having an obvious lieutenant wasn't worth it.

    And even if there was a Sekban Lieutenant Specialist, it would still be a somewhat risky choice. The Sekban Specialist doesn't appear to be that popular, having strong competitition for the wildcard specialist slot in Rouhani and Leila. So a Sekban Lieutenant Specialist would still be a suspicious choice. But at least no longer an obvious one.

    QK doesn't have access to Chain Of Command anyways. So even a somewhat efficient Lieutenant will be limited in what they can realistically try to achieve. The one wound, AP rifle, NCO, specialist Lieutenant of our dreams will hardly spend turn 1 ramboing into the enemy backline.

    Personally, I really like the Sekban models and fluff, and would like to have more openings to field them. But right now, one Sekban might perhaps make it into the list. And that's most often the Sekban HRL as an upgrade option to the Hafza HRL.
     
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  5. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't expect any changes. CB is barely working on the rules/balance for N4 as it is, and QK is a dead sectorial at the moment. I love it, but it's in a really bad spot.
     
  6. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Don't worry.

    Muyib and Govid also lost their default rifle person so it's clearly intended.

    Use your Hafza to interject some confusion.
     
  7. Mechanokrat

    Mechanokrat Active Member

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    But then there's little reason not to make the Hafza the Lieutnant? Hafza Lieutnant hiding in a defensive linkteam, some Sekban in a more offensive linkteam for the NCO order. Nothing wrong with that if you have the points. It's just not a good case for the Sekban Lieutnant. :disappointed:
     
  8. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    • You field two Sekban Riflemen. Each of them has to be a Lt. (as neither is a Specialist Operative profile). One of them is actually a Hafza, and not the Lt. 50% chance your opponent goes for the wrong one.
    • You field a Sekban Rifleman, who is obviously a Lt. Except he isn't, he's secretly a Hafza and not a Lt. Your actual Lt. is lesewhere, possibly another Hafza pretending to be yet something else (I often go for an Odalisque: no-one is eager to mess with an Odalisque, for they're tough and have nasty weapons options - plus, an Odalisque can't be a Lt).
     
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  9. Psyllus

    Psyllus Member

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    It also gives you the choice of what that Hafza is armed with. Opponent tries to engage your AP Rifle Lt in a bad range band only to find out it's a WIP 14 Flash Pulse in a good range band.

    I've also had success with telegraphing a Hafza (deploying two Saladins in vanilla) and getting my opponent to assume it's just another Rifle/LSG cheerleader. Then, once they've committed based on that assumption, Surprise! It's actually a HRL.
     
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  10. Mechanokrat

    Mechanokrat Active Member

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    Is the Sekban Lieutnant really an option if you have to pay 15 pts extra for a decoy? I mean, the profile isn't THAT awesome? :)

    And it's "only" somewhat of a 50:50 chance. (Actually better, because both obvious Lieutnants could be Hafza.) But why give the opponent a 50:50 chance, when you can make him guess from all S2 models?

    True, you could use a Hafza posing as Sekban Lieutnant as bait to draw out drop troopers or other firstrikers. But a lone, prone Ghulam is only 11 points. And a Hafza posing as something "dangerous" like Djanbazan HMG could have the same effect while also derailing the opponents plans somewhat.
     
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  11. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Sekban lieutenant which is really a Hafza forward observer (and thus a specialist!) complete with flash pulse for those "out of your good range band" shots, and a bonus set of deployable repeaters.

    Of course I have resting vanilla face. :D
     
  12. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    He is an option. Note, I'm not saying he's a particularly good option.
    Seriously now, I was pointing out possible tricks that could be used. Not necessarily the most optimal stratagems a vanilla / QK list could use.

    [​IMG]

    I mean, we can field 2 Hafza in Vanilla. And 4 in QK. That is quite some potential for messing up with your opponent :P
    Sure, not the most foolproof strategy around, but some people just like to watch the world burn...
     
  13. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    How are people (who actually play the Sectorial right now) finding QK to be working in 2023? I've been playing and list building with them for a short while and they seem crazy good and fun to use! :P
     
  14. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Oldie but goldie. Didn't change much recently, since the new Fireteams update.
    Yes, they could do better, they need some revisit and rewrite on some troops. But that isn't on the cards anytime soon, apparently.

    Caveat: I can't say I play them a lot. My meta got badly drained of players in the pandemic, so my choice of gamers and armies toplay against is limited - and with 7 armies I currently play, despite rotating them on a regular schedule, QK comes up to the table only once every so often...
     
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  15. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    I personally tended to find Qapu Khaqi a bit bland before the Fireteam Update, since Wildcarding stuff into a Ghulam Core was so effective and so RTF:ish... But these days I only tend to play 0-1 Ghulams in QK, so it feels like an entirely different Faction to my main one!

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that prior to the Fireteam Update, Hafzas/Odalisques didn't go into the "mercenary" Fireteams, but now you can band of couple of Hafzas with a Druze Hacker/Killer Hacker to Pitcher Burst 2 Repeaters from the Deployment Zone to the Deployment Zone which feels... Uh... Rather strong! I also see the ability to form cheapish Fireteams with Djanbazans/Azrails as pointmen (pointpersons?) as a mechanical strength of the Faction, and from my experience so far I'd go as far as to rate the raw firepower of QK above that of RTF/HB...

    Seven Factions, huh? You're my hero - I can barely wrap my head around one or two! :D
     
  16. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    I'm not sold on that.
    • Yes, pre-Fireteam Update you couldn't add Odalisques nor Hafzas to "mercenary" Fireteams, despite their Wildcard status.
    • Now, you can - but these still count as mixed Fireteams, because neither Hafzas nor Odalisques "count as" Druze (or Kaplans). So you can get the team full for less points, but you lose quite some benefits of a "pure" Fireteam.
    • Druze have BS 12 and an X-visor. So, with that trick, you get a Pitcher up to 16" on a 18-or-less (pure Druze Team, full Core). On 15-or-less up to 24". But if you want DZ to DZ shot on a 48" table, that's over 24", so 12-or-less. One salvo, that's 2 chances of success, but you'll be out of Pitchers after that either way. And that's assuming you have LoS to the target point, otherwise it is -6 for Speculative Fire on top of that.
    • Add a single Wildcard to the team, and you're at 16-or-less to 16", 13-or-less to 24", and 10-or-less over 24".
    Dunno. My meta is not heavy on hacking networks.

    4 of them are Haqq :P the other 3 got derived from there. Or actually, everything got derived from my QK (first derivative being Corregidor :P)
    Make CB release the Khanate, and it will be 8...
     
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  17. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    I'd personally not be too eager to invest the points (and somewhat more crucially - the trooper slots) into a full "non-Pure" QK Fireteam Core, especially in the case of something as expensive as the Druze! Then again, the cost of entry into the B2 Pitcher fun can be as low as 58 points (two Hafazas and a Druze Killer Hacker) - that gives you a close to 70% chance to land a Repeater up to 40'' away on your first try! Throw in an 8 point Kameel so you can rinse and repeat to your heart's content... With a Ghulam Hacker and Shaytaniyah added the Qapu Khalqi commander can get 6 Regular Orders, a fearsome attack/board control element, a decent Lieutenant bunker and a +1B/+1DMG Viral Pistol with X/Visor for mere 98pts/2SWC! Obviously you can still stack additional elements on top of that if you want, but to me that sounds plenty good already!

    My experience with the global meta (as well as the shark tank that is my domestic meta) is that capable Opponents are quick to capitalize on weak Hacking presence, and being the one who potentially gets to do the capitalizing (with a rather low opportunity cost involved, no less) feels pretty great! But I'm going to do some testing with this, and I'll report how it does! My main point is that I think the meta might be sleeping on the QK, and there might actually be a pretty scary Sectorial there under all that rust and lack of love... ;)
     
  18. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    I've only got the one haqq force (QK), but like Errhile, I have about the same number of other armies - Corregidor, Neoterra, JSA, Starmada, and I can do Ikari, Starco and Aleph (vanilla).

    I've only ever run "pure" fireteams in my QK. Same for the other armies that use fireteams. Never felt the need to toss in a salad of wildcards.
     
  19. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Out of curiosity - what do you do once you have that Repeater on target?
    Genuinely curious, as nobody plays that way in my meta.

    To my eye (not practised in that style of play!) there seem to be several problems:
    1. Unless the opponent is Hackable themselves, you can only put a Spotlight (with a Killer Hacker, not even that) on them. Which has its uses, true, but requires further Order investment.
    2. Raining down Smart Missiles means you have to defend your SML REM well. Or it will be raided by enemy AD / Camo. Because it is a clear danger, and as such it needs to be elliminated.
    3. Rinse & Repeat - that calls for spending more Orders.
    4. All the above - save for a few Classified Objectives - don't really bring you victory points in objective-oriented scenarios. Because for these, you need your models to move forward and either take ground, or interact with mission objectives. A "two Hafzas and a Druze Hacker" fireteam can do that, but (unless the Hafzas bring in some heavy weapons) doesn't seem to be particuarly good at that...
    5. With said trio, a Kameel and a Shaytanyah, you're already filled 5 of your trooper slots...
    I mean, I do occasionally play with a SML, but not really basing the enitre gameplay around it, I guess...
     
  20. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    A Druze in a haris would be a pretty decent repeater delivery system, yeah. Not as good as Bit & Kiss, and not backed by an Anathematic, but still decent although quite pricey.

    But, it's not enough to make QK good. I don't think it's fair to say that the meta is somehow sleeping on QK. There are a surprisingly large number of QK players in the IGL, which is the closest we have to a global meta. But what's notable is that the QK players themselves all agree that it's one of the weakest factions currently, possibly the weakest one.

    Personally I find it notably easy to play against, but don't take my word for it, go by the assessment of the QK players themselves.

    It just doesn't have much it can do. Getting Fiddler helped it, but Fiddler isn't even that good, she's just better than the other stuff QK has.

    Also worth noting that the Druze sectorial can do a Druze pitcher link cheaper and better than QK can. In fact, the QK player in my local meta is finally giving up on QK and switching to Druze.
     
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