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Military Orders - Knights of Montesa

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by herod1204, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. herod1204

    herod1204 Knight of Santiago

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    So I was hoping to start a discussion about Knights of Montesa, and specifically their place in Military Orders, as they don't seem to be that popular. I don't really want to start a discussion about their viability compared to the Hospitaler HMG link, but rather what uses and niches they can fill. They certainly seem under utilised from what I have seen, yet they can, theoretically, solve some of the challenges MO faces. As an example, this is the list I ran tonight against my partner (ISS) in Supremacy:

    [​IMG] Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]3
    [​IMG] KNIGHT OF MONTESA Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Shock CCW. (1 | 48)
    [​IMG] PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] DE FERSEN Lieutenant Spitfire / Pistol, Templar CCW (AP + Shock). (2 | 58)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 41)
    [​IMG] MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The original idea and thought process was to deploy the Montesa and Peacemaker on one flank to hold and cripple the advance. A solid 70 odd points to hold a single quadrant whilst decimating opposing link teams seemed reasonable. Meanwhile on the other flank, the Hospitallers and De Feresen were to advance killing all before them as per normal.

    Obviously, that plan didn't quite work... Turn one I charged the Montesa forwards and assault his Lieutenant Sun Tze. I lost the Montesa in return, but seemed a fair trade. His turn one, he dropped a Garuda in that somehow drew a bead on de Fersen and gunned him down. It then turned into a blood tit for tat war, that I barely won. On the other hand, it felt like even if I hadn't had to charge the Montesa forward, it would still have held a zone quite effectively.

    The other list I drew up for the mission was this:

    [​IMG] Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] KNIGHT OF MONTESA Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Shock CCW. (1 | 48)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT OF MONTESA Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 50)
    [​IMG] FATHER-KNIGHT Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 50)
    [​IMG] FATHER-KNIGHT (Fireteam: Duo) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 44)
    [​IMG] MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33)
    [​IMG] PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Slightly different approach, but still predicated around the idea of having advanced heavy infantry units supported, dug in, and able to wreck havoc on my opponent.

    I am curious to hear how other people have used them though, and what niches they fill. For me, they definitely feel strong in quadrant control missions, but equally I haven't really had the chance to use them much more than this. Thoughts on lists, lists you have used, and more general thoughts on Montesas are all welcomed!
     
  2. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I find the lgl and lrl quite appealing profiles starting so far up they project a lot of threat. I used them to good effect in a tourney a few months ago. The issue is supporting them and the amount of deadly midfield is getting cranked up quite a bit. If you’re looking at just running them, I argue they have a better spot in SAA as I feel the regular link is far superior to sgts and you can have nagas and dart help support their midfield presence.

    From and MO perspective, they’re going to be relying on a link that can only reach out to 32 well. Friars are going to support them pretty decent with FD1 but I wouldn’t bother with constantinos due to the improvement on the BF. TOFOOS are goin to be as staple as ever. A big problem will be hacking deterrent and there not too much you can do about it unfortunately. I would probably look at running fusiliers to play hide the LT as one of these being the Lt would just be suicide.

    Examining the montesa you find a highly versatile close to midrange fighter combined with mech deployment to take advantage of said loadout. This is also combined with his relatively fragile HI frame and high price tag of around 45-50 points. Their CC is lackluster with assault and CC20 with shock weapons generally. You’re going to have to worry about these guys if you go second and you may wind up deploying conservatively negating their benefit of mech deployment. The benefits of using these guys correctly can be devastating as they can lock your opponent in their deployment zone for very few orders and start raining hell on anyone trying to hide. Getting this done first turn can dictate a game. Compared to hostpitalers it’s a much riskier investment.
     
  3. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Looking at your first list I was literally hearing Johanna praying to get involved.
     
  4. herod1204

    herod1204 Knight of Santiago

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    Johanna?

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
     
  5. Riquende

    Riquende Well-Known Member

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    Joan. Jeanne. Juanita. Ioanna. Giovanna. Sian.

    Johnette? Jonathena?
     
    #5 Riquende, Sep 8, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  6. Riquende

    Riquende Well-Known Member

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    To be honest they aren't popular because people struggle to fit yet more HI in when you've put your link in and all the requisite support pieces. Personally I don't do links very often, but the only time I've gone for Montesas it was as part of a list skewed heavily towards upfield deployment - a Montesa duo started on a roof with a peacemaker and bot covering the only stair approach to them just in case, and then I think maybe 4 TOFO scattered across midfield and 2 TO snipers deployed on the flanks. God knows what else was in the list but knowing me is was Lt Joan, Black Friar and fusilier Hacker.
     
  7. herod1204

    herod1204 Knight of Santiago

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    Ahhh, I thought that was what you probably meant, though I personally don't see Joan fitting wonderfully in that list. There just doesn't seem to be enough stuff for her to coordinate well with.

    And yeah, that is kinda the problem I was having when I built the list. It felt like trying to cram in all the stuff to support them really hampered what else I could put in the list. One Montesa, Evo Hacker and Peacemaker is roughly 100 points, and that hurt. Given the cost, a lone Montesa unsupported feels like too much of a risk, but I couldn't see how to really capitalise on them with the support options available in MO. I might look into doing a much more TO heavy list with that in mind, be interesting to see how it plays out.
     
  8. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    I was messing a bit with the Army Builder. The first list is purely a Kill the mutant! Burn the heretic! Purge the unlcean! themed deck intended for direct action missions:
    [​IMG] Johanna
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50)
    [​IMG] DE FERSEN Spitfire / Pistol, Templar CCW (AP + Shock). (2 | 58)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 41)
    [​IMG] BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT OF MONTESA Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 50)
    [​IMG] PEACEMAKER Spitfire + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (1 | 27)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    7 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Abuses MechDep and Johanna's free co-ordinated order. Pretty straightforward.

    That one has a little bit more button pushing but sticks to the PanO concept of kill the enemy first and push buttons later.

    [​IMG] Johanna
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50)
    [​IMG] DE FERSEN Spitfire / Pistol, Templar CCW (AP + Shock). (2 | 58)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 41)
    [​IMG] BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT OF MONTESA Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 50)
    [​IMG] PEACEMAKER Spitfire + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (1 | 27)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    7 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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