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Mehmut in the ISS

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by valukr, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. valukr

    valukr Well-Known Member

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    With the white-banner dropping, it is a lot to take in and possibly a bit overwhelming to comment on.

    So, let's narrow our focus to one unit and his effect on a sectorial.

    EDIT: Working on the assumption he will count as a pheasant for fire-team composition, as well as count as the KS controller. Both very likely, and probably simply waiting on ARMY update fine-tuning.

    He seems to do 3 main things.

    - Give us an alternative to our near staple (KS Controller)
    - Provide CoC option that is not terrible (pending opinion and playtesting)
    - Give us sensor, that is integral in an ISS list, imho

    That's a lot of utility in one troop.

    Secondary things he may do,

    -Make Bao Core worth considering again?
    -Pheasent/Bao Harris?
    -Provide room for aggressive LT, and be used as a back up attack option?
    -Allow KS batteries for aggressive attack pieces, whilst also being an attack vector himself

    Thoughts?
     
    #1 valukr, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
    East of Irem likes this.
  2. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Technically not legal right now. Requires a Celestial Guard with the controller to bring Kuang Shi.
     
  3. valukr

    valukr Well-Known Member

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    Gonna go and assume that's a glitch on ARMY, which will be evened out
     
  4. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    If he's given any fireteam support, I think he'll be really good. But for now, I think it might be too hard to fit him in.

    Still, I like him a lot. He's kind of like a baby Crane. Or a coked up, actually good Pheasant.
     
  5. valukr

    valukr Well-Known Member

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    Some brainstorming.

    List A, is based on the fact I've never used that profile.

    List B, is based on the fact I hate using Hsien Lt aggressively due to usual lack of CoC

    Imperial Service
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    ADIL (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Electric Pulse. (0 | 39)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    SUN TZE Lieutenant (Advanced Command) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 57)
    XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    CRANE IMPERIAL AGENT Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 53)
    KǍNRÈN Minelayer Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt, Sniffer / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 27)
    SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    3.5 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Imperial Service
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    ADIL (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Electric Pulse. (0 | 39)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    CRANE IMPERIAL AGENT Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 53)
    KǍNRÈN Minelayer Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt, Sniffer / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 27)
    HSIEN Lieutenant HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61)
    SÙ-JIÀN Heavy Shotgun, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 54)
    LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    2.5 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
  6. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I'd never take him as is in Imperial Service. He's like a points-optimized crane without the link options or cool primary gun. His KSCD has zero functionality in IS. Something like 95% of IS lists take at least one CG with KSCD. It is the most comprehensively auto-included profile in all of INFINITY according to that stats dump we had a while ago and I fully believe it.

    The only way I'd take him is as a Wildcard.
     
    valukr likes this.
  7. valukr

    valukr Well-Known Member

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    That's kinda the point...

    The CG KSCD is auto-include in the current state of the sectorial. He gives a chance to possibly break the mold, or so i hope to discuss, in this topic.

    You don't feel the combination of CoC+sensor+KSCD is value enough to include him?

    Don't think the synergy this provides is enough to justify him?

    What new options does he open?
     
  8. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

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    I think the issue is the way the rules are currently written, only the cg kscd permits the use of kuangshi. Additionally, they didn’t give him the special fireteam with them either.
     
    valukr likes this.
  9. Furiat

    Furiat Mandarin

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    The problem with his KSCD is that it doesn't allow you to include kuang shi in your list. You have to take CG with KSCD. I think that this is just a mistake but for now his device only allows you to detonate kuang shis.
     
    Zewrath and valukr like this.
  10. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    in ISS you want the celestial guard KSCD as much for the smoke, of which he is the only provider, than for the kuang-shis, so Adil isn't exactly a suitable replacement.

    I think it's best to consider him as an upgraded pheasant: barely more expensive but much more capable on all aspect, even though he loses some of the pheasant's perks like the madtraps or the red fury.

    He is also the only unit with the veteran skill in ISS, which might be valuable depending of your meta.
     
  11. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    He offers;
    1. KSCD - Good citizens always pick their device when leaving to work
    2. Sensor - Crane level sensing, able to tryout triangulated fire if necessary
    3. SO - Can you believe ISS not having to throw Sophotect for mission?!
    4. OR CoC - Pheasant go away
    5. Nice CC capability and Crane level BS
    He lacks;
    1. Lack of Shock shock - Thanks to Kuang Shis people abuse shock ammunition when facing ISS. Adil can be one-shotted easily
    2. Smokes - Daily KSCD laughs af this guy.
    3. Points - 39 pts? Bring me moar Kuang Shis..
    Overall, I won't take him for now. But if he links up with KS or reinforce CGCrane link, He's definitely worth a shot.
     
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  12. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    My meaning was that you would never not take the KSCD, even if you took Adil mememut, so it's not really a perk that makes him interesting, aside from the flavor which I approve of. A niche use is if you need to split kuang shi between combat groups and you have points to spare and no SWC.
     
    valukr likes this.
  13. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    It's a real shame he hasn't been given fireteam options, because I'd love to take him with some Wu Ming.
     
    the huanglong likes this.
  14. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Adil + Zhanying Madtraps + 3 Wu Ming would be siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick.
     
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  15. valukr

    valukr Well-Known Member

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    @Henshini @Furiat - Yes, currently as it stands, you two are correct. However, as per OP, let's work on the very likely assumption this is an error and will be remedied in army shortly. Let's Brainstorm what options this gives us

    @Sedral - I totally agree, the CG-KSCD's smoke is often what people really like. Though it does cost the core-link slot for it to be worth-while, imo.

    Secondly, do you feel ISS NEED smoke? Do we not have gun-fighters capable of stacking odds in our favor against anything in the game (active turn) ?

    Veteran profile - alright, nice! I've not even considered that. However, you're right, jammers are a pain.

    @ObviousGray - Shock, yes - indeed bad. Smoke, here we are again. 1,2,4 and 5 are all pretty great to me.

    Here are some questions to get the mind going,

    I suppose the question that needs to be asked is, can we think of a way to utilize his synergy to outweigh the cost of losing smoke?

    Also, i don't think we've really brain-stormed what options he unlocks?

    When you play ISS - do you ever use your Lt aggressively?

    Who is your Lt usually?

    How often do you take Zhangying for Sensor/Lt option?

    How often is your core link taken up by CGKSCD+KS

    Do you use KS as order battery or pawns?

    Who is your go to attack piece, Rui Shi, Hsien, Crane, Su-Jian? Which of these need smoke?

    How do you use Sun-Tzu? Have you used v2?
     
  16. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Imperial Service
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    WÚ MÍNG MULTI Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    WÚ MÍNG Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33)
    WÚ MÍNG HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 39)
    ADIL (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Electric Pulse. (0 | 39)
    ZHÀNYING (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades, MadTraps / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28)

    4 SWC | 178 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Very pricey, but would be absolutely awesome to mess around with. And there are a lot of ways to kit this out, too. Would be a very fun fireteam to see happen.

    Altogether though, I'm really hoping that his lack of fireteam options in ISS ends up being an error to be corrected. He can offer a lot to modernize ISS if given wildcard status. Moreover, that Number 2 skill listed in his ISS profile is just sad right now.
     
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  17. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    Those cons would have to be rectified if he was going to be taken in ISS, him not being able to link is one of the biggest downfalls aside from the other obvious issues (weakness to Shock, lack of Smoke/utility, and is higher cost).
     
  18. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Umh.... no..? Gunfighters stacking MOD’s in ISS is not a thing. The only MOD gunfighter we have are Aleph REM‘s.
    ISS either use smoke to stack MOD’s or brute force with linked HI’s or a super mobile HI, like the Su-Jian
     
  19. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    The Hsien's viability in YJ and ISS is very much weighed more favourably than the Aquila's due to smoke. Without smoke, he'd probably never see use.
     
  20. valukr

    valukr Well-Known Member

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    @Zewrath odds, not mods.

    ISS can stack their odds in active turn in their favor against anything in the game.

    Active turn you have the advantage because of burst.

    Only way you lose advantage is if enemy has things that stack mods against you.

    If you have a way to disregard those mods, you are at advantage.

    Thus, you have better odds.

    Nimbus, msv1, msv2, sensor, MMLX, bio-metric,

    Do we need smoke?
     
    #20 valukr, Apr 16, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020