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MAKE MAF GREAT AGAIN

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by the huanglong, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Err, I mean make MAF great for once (please).

    Here are some small suggestions improve the competitiveness of MAF without going overboard.

    • Unrestricted Wildcard on Kornak: Character wildcards are already out of control in other factions, Kornak's link rules are cumbersome and unnecessary. It would be an indirect buff to poor value Morat Vanguard infantry
    • Lieutenant profile for the Full Auto 2 Sogorat: Why not, Sogs are already left in the dust for value and performance by the new Gamma. We already pay so much across the army for the Morat rule, why not give us a good platform to use it.
    • Lieutenant profile for Raicho: As above
    • Reduce the SWC of Suryat Haris: 1 SWC for haris is crazy in any faction, let alone an unpopular troop in an unpopular faction. All this does is guarantee the profile is never taken instead of Kornak when some masochist wants to run linked Suryats.
    • Reduce the SWC of Morat Vanguard Infantry Lieutenants. 1 SWC is crazy, especially in the context of the Morat rule which costs a fortune across a whole list and encourages you to take a good Lieutenants who can use their order without fear of LOL.
    • Imetrons: ALEPH sectorials get AI beacons, why can't ours?
     
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  2. Vaulsc

    Vaulsc Well-Known Member

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    I think that MAF has some really good stuff in it, especially now that the vanguards can support a single Suryat, either a Tac-Aware HMG or the sturdy HRL. Note that Kornak's pain-train of Suryats and Raktorak is currently one of the best HI limited-insertion options due to being immune to isolation and having access to Tac-awareness. The strange errata that allows you to cautious-move the entire team past a fire-lane without giving ARO to models in HD is actually a significant buff. The hungries-link order battery is still really good if you are also running Kornak in a haris or if you go with a yaogat haris. And the Rasyat is a great option for a number of reasons.

    It just annoys most people that they supposedly have this 'brawling', or 'savage', or 'aggressive, offensive' style. That's how we're supposed to characterize them, but as a faction they're nowhere near as offensive as vanilla Haqqislam or Ariadna, They don't do as much close combat as JSA or Shasvastii by a long mile. It would be much easier to characterize them in a way that aligns more closely to their background, if more of them had berserk or NBW. If you take a look at the Krakot, THAT unit really embodies what a Morat should be like: forward deploying, unpredictable (metachem), lethal (chestmines), aggressive (impetuous, berserk). But that unit is available to so many other factions, it becomes so much less special. MAF should at least be able to form a Haris with them, but instead they just get the unique AVA 3, which hardly anybody uses anyway. Imagine if the Krakot was a wildcard option in MAF!! It wouldn't make them stronger than the top factions, but would really make them more competitive.

    I would honestly just tweak the Morat rule itself to give the entire type some kind of close-range buff, then balance it by going over the few profiles that this would overpower (Kornak, daturazi, krakot, etc) and dialing them back a bit. If done correctly, it could bring things like the Raicho, Sogarat, Zerat etc up to speed.
     
  3. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Thats an excellent overview Vaul. Morats aren't terrible, they just don't really align with the fluff/expectations. The Krakot is pretty much the most Morat profile in the game, so of course everyone gets it. That really does about sum it up.

    I've long argued that the best way to update Morats is to go deeper on their "no bullshit hardass" ethos as opposed to their "red Orks" depiction. A whole faction of hardcore troopers in the style of grizzled Vietnam veterans.

    Give them access to efficient loadouts and fireteams for straight up gunfighting. Try to make them the best "no visual mods allowed" gunfighters, at least to the extent that this is possible. If link teams were sporting guys with mines, chain colts, Light Shotguns, MSV1, mixed troop capacity etc then they would be more effective on the table, more true to (one facet of) their lore, and be more interesting.
     
  4. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    This is absolutely what they need. Corageous, unscrupulous, pragmatic, and above all, aggressive. You'd think the Dogged rule was made for Morats yet there isn't a Morat who has it.
     
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  5. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    These are the only two suggestions I don't agree with. The Raicho is not a military machine, it should never have a lieutenant option, just like oznats and daturazi don't have one.

    I'm also not keen on imetrons on MAF. I don't want EI stuff on my morats.

    That being said, I really think the sogarat needs a buff right now. After seeing the gamma unit I'm really miffed about how the sog was treated.

    However, the other suggestions you give, while good I don't feel are necessary. They would improve the faction, that's no doubt, but right now MAF is at a good point in terms of what the army can do.
     
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  6. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Ages back in some armchair fever dream, I imagined the idea of a Morat rework where the Morat rule was changed to allow impetuous Morat models to still benefit from partial cover MODs (trying to mechanically represent that while they're extremely aggressive, they aren't space orks; their aggression is disciplined and focused), and then applying the frenzy or impetuous characteristic to a bunch of the more aggressive MAF pieces.

    But
    a) it'd be way too much bookeeping; and
    b) it'd probably actually be broke as balls, like imagine if krakots could take cover or rasyats could deploy for free and were cheaper for no downside for goodness' sake
     
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  7. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I wish it were possible, it's very hard already to make a good (by the standards of MAF) list without maxing out on Q drones and Ikadrons. I'd probably trade them both for the LT option on the FA2 Sog.
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    People keep talking about how Morats should have Frenzy or whatever, but if you read the fluff it'd be very out of character. Discipline is a very big deal in their culture; that's why Daturazi and Krakots are seen as weird and the dregs of society respectively.

    When you talk about the MAF sectorial, it has decent defense *and* offense. It's not a sectorial that's aggressive like CHA or JSA.
     
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  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Why is that a bad thing? Ikadrons and the Q-Drone (and the E-Drone) are some of the goodies that all the CA sectorials get, they should be taken advantage of.
     
  10. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    '

    Part of the problem is that Morat defense is pretty poor and going second is stressful. The options for defensive links are horribly expensive and have issues. If you take a rodok missile link for example, it has to be your offense and defense because its a huge chunk of your list, but if you go second and the rodok missile falls (which it will, to considerably cheaper 5 mans), the only way to get your 5 man bonus back is with a raktorak who can't jump where they jump. MVI are terrible value, Yaogat cores are too expensive, slow, and utterly sub-optimal in face of other faction's mixed visor links (when was the last time you saw a Bao link). Full Auto Sog is OK with his mods and toughness, but if you are taking him, chances are you are not getting any value from your faction-wide-expensive-as-fuck Morat rule. What you are left with is hungry speedbumps and the Q-drone, who's mimetism is just a sad tax when it comes to getting MSV-2'd through smoke, the oldest offensive trick in the book.

    I like the Morat aesthetic more than the general CA aesthetic, it's why I chose the faction. So I would rather take a heavily armored Oni-ape thing than a mechanical arachnid thing if it weren't shooting myself in the foot competitively, that's all. It's a persona preference that @DaRedOne seems to share.
     
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  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @the huanglong Fundamentally during the reactive turn you're trying to slow your opponent down, anything that actually gets killed should be considered a windfall. Throwing bots in the way to Flash Pulse and having dudes with template weapons waiting around corners is totally reasonable; and then, of course, there's the Q-Drone. If you field an Engineer (and the Kurgat is a decent specialist), they become even more troublesome for your opponent because they have to spend orders finishing them off.

    By what standards is Morat defense poor? If Morat defense is poor, then I think you're making the argument that all defense in the game is poor. You've got Mimetism core fireteam guys, MSV core fireteam guys, the Q-Drone, cheap things with flash pulses, and cheap things with template weapons.

    If you're attached to a particular aesthetic, that's one thing, but the Morats in-setting are pragmatic when it comes to winning fights, and using bots to support them is completely in-character.
     
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  12. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I was about to say.....when was MAF ever great? :P
     
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  13. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Good factions don't need to pay for MSV2 (and Morat lol) five times to get SSL2 and +BS3 on their MSV2 ARO troop. Great factions also have mimetism on that troop.

    NPC Faction MSV2 Link
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]5
    RAKTORAK Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    YAOGAT Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 27)
    YAOGAT Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 27)
    YAOGAT Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 27)
    YAOGAT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 34)
    1.5 SWC | 137 Points
    Open in Infinity Army



    Power fantasy
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]5
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    1.5 SWC | 72 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #13 the huanglong, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @the huanglong That's one thing in both sectorials' arsenal, and while it's a very powerful tool for VIRD, Morats have plenty of other stuff. I'm not making the argument that Morats are secretly better than VIRD or anything like that, VIRD's one of the highest-tier sectorials (though not as good as OSS IMO). One very obvious thing about those links, though, besides the 100% points difference, is that I could dive on the VIRD fireteam with a superior infiltrator with smoke grenades (Kitsune, Cherry) or even a Yuan Yuan. I couldn't do that to the Yao fireteam (at least it'd be substantially harder).
     
  15. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    My crazy dream for the Morat rule was that it should have universal Number 2 built in. It's a nice parallel to their LoL immunity and Religious troop effect - it similarly reflects their unbreakable military discipline.

    I do think V: Dogged would work for a Morat unit. Something like Muyibs would not be at all out of place in MAF.
     
  16. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    That would be great ideas to implement. It would add nice flavor to stale Morat soup we have come accustomed to.
     
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  17. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Sigh... Okay, I have to take a chance to blow off some steam here:

    MAF is my best army. I play Vanilla Combined, Vanilla Nomads, Bakunin and MAF. I've managed to win competitions with all of them, but with MAF I routinely get sucesses, either coming in at top three or flat out winning. This started when I joined Infinity right before HSN3 dropped and continues to this day.

    Now, I am not saying I am the best person at playing this army and that other people's opinions are wrong. What I am trying to do is explain why I feel sad when people say MAF is a bad army. It bothers me a lot. This is the army I play the best with, the army I've won a lot of games with and the army I feel the most comfortable playing.

    However, I was one of the people complaining when we got our update and I still think some complaints are valid. A good example is the Gamma Unit. This guy is pretty much what all MAF players wanted the Sogarat to be and asked for a lot. And now we're seeing it in another faction. I get it, it IS annoying. It does feel like CB isn't giving this army a lot of attention some times.

    However, please let's keep things civil and polite. MAF is a good army, it is in a good spot right now. Complaints can and should be made, but they also should be kept realistic.
     
  18. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    I've recently flitted back to morats and been playing a fair few games with them (just in friendlies)

    My original complaints following the update remain but the option for a suryat in vanguards has some legs, and the tactical awareness suryat pain juggernaut also does (although I will admit thinking I'd have been better off playing IA)

    When I saw the Gamma I wasn't actually that irritated the Sog has better guns and the ability to see off a warband, the FAL2 on the gold plated Sog is still better than FAL1 on the Gamma and while a Phy 15 Automed is more order intensive I'd say it gives more staying power than V:NWI. My irritation here was more at the BTS and the Lt option as morats are bled on SWC 1 Lts unless you look to kornak.

    The Kurgat Autocannon is still the highest damage potential in the entire game (tied with the missle yanhuo haris) admitted it's on a line trooper profile and it's incorporation into that haris was a big boost.

    Raicho is still the king of Tokyo, probably the strongest TAG in the game at the moment (more an arguement for CA rather than the virtues of MAF as a standalone option).

    Mixing in a rakrotak into a daturatzi core and another into a yaogat haris makes Yaogat marginally more viable.

    Rodok KHD and haris were long required.

    For a sectorial built soley on links I'd say more flexible links are a must in the form of wildcards, reduction of haris costs and a sprinkle of NCO and No.2

    While on the subject of links, an Oznat+hungries haris, clearly a support team thereby a haris, I don't think anybody has ever gone to a military engagement with the plan "we'll just let the lightly armed K9 handler be the pointman on this, once those dogs take the enemy command post they'll be really great at extracting the enemy's secure intel and holding the position against a counter atttack".
     
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  19. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
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    Step 1. Learn to play MAF as they are, not as what you want them to be.
    Step 2. There is no step 2.

    Boom! MAF is great.
     
  20. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    MAF is getting sleeper buffs with all armies getting more and more jammer (and Eraser in Spiral).