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Lore question- Who is st. Mary?

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by SaladSnek, Jun 3, 2021.

  1. SaladSnek

    SaladSnek Member

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    I know she's some historical figure that kicked of the reverence. Someone told me they had read some lore that she was one of a handful of geniuses who's conciusness was uploaded into aleph but she rejected it mid process and died while claiming aleph is evil. Can anyone confirm this for me or point me to a book with more info?
     
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  2. borisgreymenace

    borisgreymenace killer heckler

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    as i recall the observance was founded by Mother Ligia Persakis, a Greek abbess who like many others were not comfortable with ALEPH's close association with the Neovatican. basically she was excommunicated and exiled and moved the order to one of Bakunin's commune modules.

    the actual St. Mary of the Observance is not named as far as i know. Mother Persakis came from a Greek abbey, so maybe it's based on Mariam Baouardy. could be what you named above (though I haven't seen it in the fluff books).
     
  3. SaladSnek

    SaladSnek Member

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    taken from an infinity wiki -"The best AI experts in Praxis live in the convent module of the Observance of Mercy. The Observants of Saint Mary of the Knife, Our Lady of Mercy, resulted from one of the many schisms in the Catholic Church after the Great Apostasy, the official agreement with ALEPH, whom many considered an instrument of the Devil. Field Observants hold the title of Reverend Moira."

    https://human-sphere.com/index.php?title=Reverend_Moira
     
  4. SaladSnek

    SaladSnek Member

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    I'm trying to find evidence for a pet conspiracy theory that ALEPH is the human EL, set in motion by shasvastii agents posing as heads of church and state before humanity is assimilated into the combined army.

    In their fluff, the Ur hegemony sets up an EI based on the species they conquer subordinate to the Ur's EI. You could view the combined army's hostility as them testing their new war machine through limited engagements.

    Not sure if CB would ever do a twist like that but it at the least makes for spicy nomad propaganda.
     
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  5. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    Saint Mary of the Knife in the infinity fluff refers to the Virgin Mary. The whole name is "Virgin Saint Mary of the Knife, Our Lady of Mercy." This is on page 161 of N3 Human Sphere.

    And Aleph being a EI advance puppet sounds like great nomad propaganda!
     
  6. SaladSnek

    SaladSnek Member

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    thanks for the page reference. will have to check that out. By title alone it doesn't convince me that it's referring to Mary mother of God since all nuns are supposedly virgins. I don't know that much about Catholicism but IDK of any reason for the virgin mother to have the title "of the knife"
     
  7. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    "They would reclaim the secret rituals of ancient Greece, when men had not yet succeeded in defanging the female aspect of divinity. Their Feminine Principle would be combative, and carry in one hand the unmediated mysticism of archaic Christianity and, in the other, the mysterious, nocturnal liturgies and the crisp, vindictive energies of pre-Christian pagan cults."

    Basically, Mother Ligia re-interpreted things to be much more female centric and aggressive. So in her vision, the Virgin Mary is...different.

    The Observance is a very unique way of interpreting Christianity. The N3 Human Sphere book does a very good job of showing how radical the Observance is.
     
    #7 Brokenwolf, Jun 3, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2021
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  8. Elric of Grans

    Elric of Grans Well-Known Member

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    @SaladSnek

    If you are not Catholic you may be missing how clear Brokenwolf's reference is. Our Lady, in Catholic lingo, always explicitly refers to Mary the mother of Jesus. There are many other St Marys, many of whom may be considered virgins, but Our Lady only refers to one. Our Lady of X is a very common thing in Catholicism (eg Our Lady of Good Council, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Lady of Sorrows, etc; these all refer to Mary the mother of Jesus).
     
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  9. SaladSnek

    SaladSnek Member

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    Thanks for the explanation. So Mary of the knife is the moiras elevating a vision of a wrathful Mary. Makes sense thematically for battle nuns.
     
  10. SaladSnek

    SaladSnek Member

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    So they are more like the bene gesserit witches from dune than our modern day nuns. that's flippin sweet. CB plz make them good :sob:
     
  11. IceCream

    IceCream Active Member

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    The RPG Core book lists this as a possibility on page 307:

    The EI’s first contact with the Human Sphere is unusual. According to the Tohaa’s intelligence analysts, there are two possibilities: First, that the EI recognised human civilisation as an aberration in its classification scheme. The species had, in fact, already taken many of the initial steps that could poise it as a surrogate of the Ur Rationalists. They had created ALEPH, a highly advanced artificial intelligence network that spanned dozens of systems. The EI saw in ALEPH an unprecedented rival and a potential existential threat to rival Nemesis. At the same time, humanity’s unending drive and thirst for knowledge made them an ideal Seeker race, and ALEPH itself could serve as the perfect precursor to their own Transcendence Project. The EI’s furious assault upon Paradiso is born from its schizophrenic confusion over what humanity’s hypothetical potential is within the Combined Civilisation; or perhaps pinning all of its plans on corrupting ALEPH itself.

    The second possibility is that ALEPH is a cuckoo. The human’s AI—which shows clear signs of being the true power behind the young race’s expansion—bears an uncanny resemblance to the early stages of EI-assimilated races: Pervasive AI control of essential infrastructure. Cyber-implants linking every citizen to a unified datasphere. Artificial bodies permanently linked to the AI’s consciousness. It is possible that the invasion of Paradiso is only one part of a long-term, multi-phasic plan, designed primarily to make the humans ever more reliant upon the AI which is, in fact, merely a mask for the EI itself.

    What is unclear to the Tohaa, however, is what threat—or reward?—could prompt the EI to pursue such an unorthodox strategy. One theory holds that the EI has concluded that Project: Transcendence is failing and seeks to spur humanity to “independently” pursue a Transcendence Project which would enjoy a greater apparent freedom from Ur influences. Another school of thought, however, has begun to coalesce around the strange incidents of the Paradiso Affair and the Last Cosmolite
    If you're into the lore behind Infinity, I'd definitely recommend picking up the RPG books. They contain a ton of lore information all condensed into one place.
     
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