Looting and Sabotaging, using CC multiple model bonus on the AC2?

Yes regarding fireteam :

In Close Combat, whether in the Active or Reactive Turn, when several members are engaged in the same CC, only the Team Leader trooper will perform the CC Roll, gaining a MOD of +1 to his B and +1 to the PH Attribute for Damage for each Fireteam member Engaged with the adversary.

And yes regarding coordinated order :

In Close Combat, only the Spearhead trooper will perform the CC Roll, getting a MOD of +1 to his B and +1 to the PH Attribute for Damage for each friendly trooper participating in the Coordinated Order engaged with the adversary

In both case you need to be in the same CC/be engaged with the same adversary (not trooper) so it works

 

No for Fireteam. Being B2B with the objective doesn't mean that you're in the Engaged state (which Fireteam explicitly refers to)

NFI with co-ord and G-Sync but I think it's Yes because they're all engaged in CC.

Oh yeah, it's a doozy.

 

Given that all the rules involved use lower-case 'engaged' at some point, it's going to be the same for all of them.

 

That's not actually necessarily true.

The Fireteam rules can be read as follows:

"When multiple troopers are engaged in CC only those in the Engaged state provide bonuses."

But it IS far cleaner.

 

Please re-read what I posted. :-(

 

I have.

Feel free to elaborate.

 

Are you contesting that lower-case 'engaged' isn't used in the Fireteam rules?

 

No.

Edit for clarity: I'm saying that it's not necessarily true the outcome will be the same despite the fact they share a phrase.

Are you saying that you don't need to be in the Engaged state to provide bonuses in CC as a member of a Fireteam?

Or are you saying that 'engaged in CC' and 'Engaged' is functionally the same (without actually saying that)?

Because I read 'engaged in CC' and 'Engaged' as dissimilar requirements (Fireteams have both,. Gsync and co-ord only have the former).

 

Ah, thank you, I'd missed that distinction in your post!

Yes. All definitions of close combat in Infinity tie back into the Engaged state, as they all talk about being in base contact with an enemy, i.e. being Engaged.

 

So you can't CC attack the objective in L&S at all?

For clarity: Engaged requires you to be in B2B with an enemy Trooper.

CC just requires you to be in B2B with a valid target.

 

Basically, for CC Attacks to work against scenery at all, you have to assume that it all works, or none of it works. :-(

 

No. Because CC Attack doesn't have the Engaged state as a requirement, only B2B.

Which is why I think 'engaged in CC' and 'Engaged' are different.

There is no mention of Engaged as part of CC Attack.

"Common Skill employed to attack in melee combat against an opponent in base to base contact.

CC ATTACKSHORT SKILL/AROAttackREQUIREMENTS

The user must be in base to base contact with an enemy.

EFFECTS

The user employs his CC Attribute to fight in Close Combat (CC).

By declaring a CC Attack, troopers automatically draw their CC Weapons. If they have more than one CC Weapon in their profile, they can choose which ones to use. When declaring a CC Attack players can only use those weapons with the CC Trait.

If the attacker has more than one target and a Burstvalue higher than 1, he must distribute his attacks as part of the CC Attack declaration"

 

BtB contact with an enemy. Which is what activates Engaged state.

Please note that I'm not claiming that this is all clear in the rules, I strongly dislike the interactions of CC and scenery structures/equipment being so undefined.

 

Enemy Trooper for Engaged. Not merely an enemy. Objectives are not Troopers ergo you do not become Engaged with them.

Considering the objectives as 'enemy's' is necessary for basically all ITS (and should probably be explicit).

 

'Enemy' is explicitly defined as enemy troopers. See http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Game_Elements:_Terminology_and_Alignment#Alignment

 

Huh... Now that's interesting. I wonder what else that breaks.*

Then yes: the whole of L&S is comprehensively broken. So what's the answer to the question then?

* A lot is the answer.

 

Declaring a CC Attack at all requires being in base to base with an enemy.
So you can't declare a CC Attack against anything other than what Infinity defines as an enemy trooper and explicit exceptions. Break away.

 

You can only BS Attack enemies as well. It gets fun :)

 

Basically you just have to assume that an AC2 acts like an (immobilized) enemy trooper for CC attack purposes, but only because that was made as an exception for that specific scenario. There's not really another way to handle it.