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LoF in active if you don’t move

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Arkhos94, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    At the kraken master, my opponent declared discover/shoot on one of my camo marker

    The camo marker was in the enemy back, so out of his LoF

    My opponent (and the judge) told me that in active you have a 360 LoF

    I checked and didn’t find it in the rules.

    General movement rules says « Troopers have a LoF arc of 360˚ while they are moving. », but my opponent declared discover so he didn’t move.

    Is there a rule I missed ?
     
    pakohbadajoz likes this.
  2. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    The simplest way to look at it is that there's no minimum amount of movement to qualify as a short move, and the trooper is basically just turning around 360 and ends facing the same way.
     
  3. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Discover + Shoot limits the model to it's existing facing and 180 degrees. The Move skill (and not Idle) is required tor the 360 degree effect.
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Move skill is not required, it's sufficient that you declare a Movement skill (such as Jump), and Discover is a Movement skill.

    However, in order to declare Discover, you have to have LOF, so you can't declare it to someone you do not already have LOF to.

    Conclusion, @Arkhos94 opponent was trying to be a bit too clever. They could've declared Discover on a Marker already in LOF and then shot someone behind the model with their new and fancy 360 LOF, but they couldn't Discover+Shoot at a Marker behind them.
     
  5. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Add another one to the list. Idle (I've been told) does not allow 360 degree arc of fire, even though it is also has the Movement lable.
     
  6. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I think the situation is moot considering you could just have declared Move and not gone anywhere (instead of an idle).
     
  7. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    That was an example.

    I'm of the opinion that "360 LoF while moving" actually requires you to use a skill that involves movement. Not Idle. Not Discover. So, if intended, a clean up of some of the labels would be appreciated.

    Rather than all the hand wringing over units or profiles.
     
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  8. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    My opponent trooper was facing the back of is deployement zone, so there where not any of my trooper in front of him.

    So from what you said, my opponent would have been force to declare move + discover if he wanted to discover my camo
     
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  9. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    To expand on what Mahtamori posted, Discover has the Movement Label.

    The Movement Label says: "Movement. The use of this Skill is a form of Movement."

    So both Idle and Discover will work, but this will apply:

     
  10. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    From infinity wiki: "For the entirety of its Order, a troop that declared a Movement can draw a 360˚ LoF."

    I don't think that idle or discover were intended to be Movement... but unfortunately those skills have label "Movement", so ... what Mahtamori said is great but still some official confirmation would be great ;( ...
     
  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    So one can't -declare- Discover without first having LoF. Making the 360 LoF from a Movement-tagged skill there useless, unless you had a separate target in your LoF to Discover against first.

    Oof, complex but useful trick. Keeping an obvious mine in your LoF becomes a tricky way to get to shoot behind you. Hmmm.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'm repeating what IJW has written about a month ago on the same topic. Do note, though, that a new edition is on its way and this is solved by mechanical parsing so I doubt it'll be officially answered.
     
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  13. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    Well...I wouldn't count on that new edition will fix a lot. Creators are the same, so why would they work better - some new errors will appear, some will disappear ... but still it will remain complicated in forever "beta-version" state.
     
  14. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    It really depends on what N4 is going to be.

    N2 was basically N1 with a pile of FAQs incorporated into the rules, only a couple major changes to how the game played.

    N3 changed design philosophy from N2's "maximum realism" to "trade realism for better gameplay".

    I'm hoping N4 is more like the change from N1 to N2 than the change from N2 to N3.