List questions

I'd give the tipical answer... camo, mines, teamplates.
- Without MSV2, Camo, DDO and Smoke give several penalties.
- No Hyperdinamics and only the Makaul with high PH. Nothing with hight ARM. Things will die fast against Mines.
- Teamplates are awesome if you manage to get several miniatures at the same time. With 4 Fireteams and many other models, this is easy to accomplish. One would have to sacrifice several troops to achieve it, because you would also face lots of teamplates in retaliation, but combined with camo one could find favorable trades.

Although I understand that facing 6 Makaul might be problematic, I never tried fielding the 6 of them.

 

AD could also be useful here, those Chaksas and Kaauris are vulnerable. Something like a Crusader with Multi-Rifle/LFT could really do some damage if it got loose behind you.

Also, weapons with a high burst value in links. A Fusilier HMG in a full link that's in it's +3 range band is going to be landing hits on 15-18 against those Makauls and throwing 5 dice. The odds are not in your Makaul's favor at that point.

Also? Here's a pro tip: in your opponents' active turn, they should target units other than the Makauls. In their reactive turn, when faced with a Triad activating, they may want to pump their AROs into units that aren't the link leader, especially if the link leader is a Makaul. They may still end up with Eclipse templates on the table, but there's an improved chance they'll have killed something in the process since the Makaul can only create FTF rolls using Eclipse with attacks directed at itself.

 

Sidebar: I hate the spec-ops system as it's currently designed. Hacking is a soft spot for us and should remain so; allowing a Tohaa player to field a linkable, Holo'd, high-WIP Hacker is just...not cool. That's not your fault though, since the rules currently allow for it. ;-)

 

Seriously? Unless your tables are way too dense, your opponents are setting up with no ARO potential at all, or you're the luckiest man alive, this should not be happening with any regularity.

Assuming your opponent has ARO units covering approaches to his side of the field, to build a "smoke tunnel" you end up burning at least two orders for every smoke template because after the first, you're stuck spending an order moving up the edge of the template (which is only 4.72", so you're not getting your max movement), and then a second long order spec firing the next. You should be failing approx. 50% of your spec-fire roles to throw smoke (13-6[spec fire]+3[range]=10), and you get no link bonus to your burst.

I just don't see this as a winning strategy unless (1) you're consistently lucky in your rolls (which, over time, you probably won't be), and (2) you're targeting an obvious lieutenant. Maybe a Datatracker. Because even if you come on over and ax units X, Y, and Z on your opponent's turn they don't have to waste orders getting to you.

I mean, your list is formidable--no doubt about that!--but it should not be as foolproof as you say it is.

So I guess my advice to your opponents would be to deploy more ARO pieces with better lines of fire, that's really key. At a minimum, it makes you burn orders throwing extra smoke to avoid them.

Your opponents could also use infiltrating TO camo in hidden deployment, as well as minelayers, as stumbling blocks to hinder your march forward. And here's a big one: they should deploy their main line far, far back and spread out (horizontally) to force you to use as many orders as possible to reach them. That will have the dual effect of leaving you with little left to spend on killing things once you make it to them, and it spreads your troops out across the table in a vertical line, making them easier to pick off from the flanks.

And look to your table density.

As for SF on the Kaauri, they can still be countered by troops that can outrange them (this is standard operating procedure for beating suppressing fire). Even a lowly CombiRifle can stand outside of SF range and force you to either dodge/shoot back normally, or pray that it misses on -3. They'd be a secondary consideration though given that your tactics are such that your opponent is forced to deal with your triads directly.

 

Camo would be my first choice for dealing with this especially cheap camo with boarding shotguns or light shotguns. If they can take Minelayer it would also make the free attack run much harder to accomplish. Also they should remember that if you have set up the team to trigger off of an impetuous move they can choose not to use it (at the cost of an order for extremely impetuous).

Even better would be a TO camo infiltrator with a shotgun so they can drop the template from an unexpected angle when you had no way to see it coming.

While there may be other counters I think they may be pretty faction specific for example Ariadna can probably spam enough camo infiltrating snipers (7 in a 300 point army by my quick count but an Ariadna player can probably tell you better) there is almost nowhere safe in your DZ for 20 models to hide in. Crazy Koalas/symbiobugs would also be triggered by the approach even through smoke but that is only available to 4 factions that I can think of (nomads, JSA, Starco, and Tohaa).

 

Nomads
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 9 1 1
BAKUNIN ÜBERFALLKOMMANDO . (0 | 23)
CHIMERA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Viral CCW. (0 | 20)
x3 PUPNIK DA CCW. (0 | 3)
JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

GROUP 2 9 1 1
INTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42)
MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

2 SWC | 241 Points

Open in Infinity Army

So for the fun of it I created a list with Nomads that is basiacally doing the same, I got more than 50 points left so could swap some units to make an actual viable list.
So with this list I am first run Morlock throws smoke on intruder, Überfall starts running. Intruder kills MSV2 Aro unit when Morlock creates a smoke tunnel after that 9 orders for Überfall to go over there and kill stuff basically the same plan as with the makauls. Main difference Überfall is mostly stronger in cc cause 4 units instead of 3, they are better in dodging template at least the pupnik because Hyper-Dynamics Lvl 2, we got an MSV2 with the intruder always an advantage.
Disadvantage Überfall doesn't have template
Other 50 points using to make moderators to Morans and zeros for field control or some other shit get some REMs etc

My point is at least nomads can do a similiar list that is in some parts better in others worse.

 

My list was more to point out that it isn't a solely Tohaa problem with nomads its actually cheaper because morlock + überfall is cheaper than 3 makauls ;)
Makauls are awesome but not that broken
To counter it good placement, makauls don't have climbing plus so if your units are on buildings the makauls need way more orders to get up there, don't have all good units in one spot so the makauls may kill one important unit and some unimportant ones with nearly all 20 orders, have template(mines, cheap warbands with flamethrower etc) covering the ways into the DZ, honestly this rush tactic would work against me the first time for sure cause never got rushed that way so far second time I would pay attention to cover my DZ to not make it worth the order cost. In your list when its the enemy turn he needs to clean out the makauls and when you only have your two sukeuls left that are a real threath maybe the hatail.

 

Killing the makauls that are in the DZ is easy just shoot them out of range of their flamethrower

 

Gotcha. Only problem there is it's inefficient to zig zag. Though probably more efficient than spec firing. :-)

I think Cho is right though, you'd probably get me with this list too if I weren't expecting it. His height suggestion is also good.

EDIT: Additional thought: in Haqq/HB specifically, setting up an advance line of 4 Mutts with Jammers would complicate your plans since they should be able to effectively cover all your approaches with a combined 32" of coverage (your opponent will want to protect them with ARO solutions too). If they have good lines of sight, you'll be forced to continue throwing your grenades or to step out and flame them. If you do the former, you eat the Jammer. If you do the latter, you eat their E/Marat/Chain Rifle and whatever other AROs are on offer.

I don't know your experience level (or that of your opponents), so forgive me if this next bit sounds obvious: The problem you're going to encounter is that once you establish that you're a rush player, your meta will adapt. See enough of this at tournaments and the players there will adapt too since everyone talks to each other. Ultimately, what you're doing here, in its intended effect if not execution, is not that much different than an OCF Sphinx list (except that there going vertical won't save you!): sneak to the back line and kill kill kill. It's a very min/max alpha strike approach, and it's vicious if unexpected. But once folks get to know your playstyle, the counters will show up, and then yours is just another list and you're going to have to figure out something other than hiding behind your Eclipse grenades.

Your meta will adapt, just give them some time (or don't force the issue and just stop playing this kind of list).

 

You see a bunch of melee you deploy high. Also I have run close to this list and at best you are accross the table in 6 orders. This only leaves you enough orders to really kill 1 person, and then you are a sitting duck for a counter push.
Max missles/rockets is the solution to all triads. Also dont forget as soon as the triad is broken they lose any cover bonus

 

Heh, pretty sure I shouldn't run this list. People in my meta are already giving me crap for switching to Tohaa in the first place (because they're cheap, or something); I don't want to further antagonize them!