1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

List building for Show of Force

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by Chickenprawn, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Chickenprawn

    Chickenprawn New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    3
    I have a tournament coming up that, pending the new ITS season, will include Show of Force.

    I thought it would be interesting to see some discussion around different approaches to list building for this. Would you build around a Gorgos? Or would you build without a Gorgos and just hunt the opponent's TAG?

    And just to make it a bit more interesting, we also have a....24pt Spec-Ops, which I am finding highly entertaining so far playing around in Army. Is it possible to make something that could help the Gorgos? Or again, would you make a TAG killer?

    Here is my first run at a list with a Gorgos in it, but it's feeling pretty uninspired. I am definitely leaning towards nixxing the Gorgos and finally getting an Igao into a list.

    Show of Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    GORGOS Squad Chaksa Peripheral B . (2 | 82)
    [​IMG] GORGOS AP Spitfire, Flammenspeer, Pulzar +1 Chaksa Peripheral B / Shock CCW. (2 | 82)
    [​IMG] CHAKSA PERIPHERAL B Pulzar / Pistol, Knife. (4)
    SUKEUL Lieutenant (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    KAMAEL (Infinity Spec-Ops) (24 XP) (WIP:15, W:2, Engineer, Stratuscloud, Nullifier) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA SERVANT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    CHAKSA SERVANT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioBombs / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades + 1 Surda SymbioBeast / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CCW. (0 | 8)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2
    TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    3.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  2. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2018
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    158
    I'd take a Gorgos if I'd feel like the objective points will likely impact my position in the tournament as a tie breaker. Especially if there are too many players to determine a single undefeated player after the last round.
    Otherwise the Gorgos just isn't worth it. Especially not after the Symbiomate change and the recent release of O-12 and their Heavy Gluethrowers.
     
    Chickenprawn and ChoTimberwolf like this.
  3. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    2,657
    I disagree here: it's true that we can no longer walk through 50 ARO's and ignore (almost) everything, but now thanks to Total Inmunity we can't die due to a single Fire crit. Also, now in our Reactive Turn we can retreat behind cover after spending the Symbiomate (thanks to Kinematica the Gorgos is better at retreating than other TAGs).
     
    Chickenprawn likes this.
  4. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    396
    Main problem for gorgos is the removal of the optional trait from the mates. Forcing you to use the mate even against a pistol hit means you rarely will use the mates effect on anything useful. Mate is still ok for reactive
     
    xagroth likes this.
  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    1,715
    Not topical.jpg
     
  6. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    393
    Seeing as how the gorgos is the only tag in the game whose pilot doesnt have the pilot skill (prolly cause the gorgos is obviously just heavy infantry and not really a tag) i would suggest either not playing the gorgos or not playing tohaa at all for the tournament. Not playing the gorgos lets you play a list geared towards just wiping out your opponent, which would prolly work well with a 24 pt spec ops. I assume this is your second list, and that the tourney has some other missions that require specialists? If so, the gorgos will most likely be dead weight in other missions, and having a second list just built for killing things in general would prolly work better for tohaa.
    I would of course suggest a triad of makauls, prolly with another makaul in another triad in a second group. The second group makaul can provide smoke cover, and a triad of makaul can kill any tag in the game more reliably than anything else, especially if you smoke juke them to force them to dodge against the third makaul while getting a b2 damage 16 viral or double action hit depending on whichever of their defense values is lower.
    As for the spec-ops, stratuscloud is prolly the best ability available. If i were going for a kill specialist, i would go for +1 bs, hmg, bioimmunity, climbing plus, stratuscloud, nwi; but honestly even for a kill list i think the spec ops is prolly best used for support, and i would go with +1 wip, minelayer, doctor, super jump, nwi, forward deployment l1, stratuscloud. This lets you put it prone on a roof a bit forward, and gives you a doctor that can reliably get to its patients in the late turns. Basically a weaker draal that is a better specialist. If you want it to triad or to be linked to helper bots, change the jump for climbing.

    I think if you do end up going with the gorgos, have a spec ops with nullifiers, forward deployment, and super jump. That way you can make a path for the gorgos where you dont hafta worry about being hacked. It seems way more points effecient to build a defensive spec ops than an offensive one, which makes sense when we are starting with the kamael as the chassis
     
    ChoTimberwolf and Chickenprawn like this.
  7. Torres

    Torres Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    39
    I hope that everyone will be ok with me chiming in... It's also about Gorgos after all ;)
    @borings Do you think it's the same for Deadly Dance? After ~ 20 games with 18-20 orders with six Makauls I'm finally getting grasp about what to do with my lists but this scenario (which will be played at the tournament I'm testing for) is giving me headache.
    1. It's very random and dependant on first roll for quadrants.
    2. If you don't have a TAG and your opponent does, it's hard to score total victory.
    3. If you don't have a TAG, your opponent does and they will win Initiative Roll to go second, it's very hard to win at all (considering nature of the scenario and scoring).

    For this scenario only I was thinking about testing 16 orders with Gorgos...
     
    #7 Torres, Aug 11, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  8. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    393
    so i think in a 3+ round tournament, if there is only one tag mission, its not worth taking a tag unless all of the other missions can be done with the same list. so if its like decapitation, deadly dance, and highly classified, i would not be bringing a tag list, and i would just have play the decap list in deadly dance. the way i look at it is that our tag is not so great to begin with, meaning with bad rolls i could be looking at getting no points from the tag regardless of whether it is there or not. so i would rather focus on just killing as many points as possible, and using chaksa baggage to hold the quadrants. the swarm list always wants to go first, regardless of mission, deadly dance is no exception. are you having trouble killing their tag when you go first? you should have enough orders to get to it, regardless of where it is on the map. i agree deadly dance can sometimes be a pain but i've never had a tag make a real impact, other than being a big point sink/target. running makauls up with a kriigel is also pretty nice for deadly dance, as you can stop a lot of shenanigans with that eraser aro.

    that being said, i think if you can run a tag list without messing up the other missions you should go for it. the gorgos is not very good but you can sometimes get lucky with the quadrants and only need to have it move up a single time. running a ton of makauls and also a gorgos has worked for me in the past. running like that makes you lose almost all your shooting power, but sometimes dance is really just a positioning game, which i think is pretty cool.
     
    Torres and RobertShepherd like this.