Last Launch : Lieutenant, Evo, Peripherals

Discussion in '[Archived]: N4 Rules' started by iKon, Sep 25, 2023.

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  1. iKon

    iKon Not Very Well-Known Member

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    I have posted this question elsewhere in the forum and it didn't seem to get any attention, I have also discussed it elsewhere and there seem to be some very strong opinions on each side of each of these questions so bringing here in hopes of official answer.

    1) In Last Launch what happens if you Extract your Lt?

    RAW it seems that Extracted lacking the null state doesn't trigger the Loss of Lieutenant game requirements buy you would then start the following turn without a Lt on the table which makes you functionally immune to LoL.

    1b) Depending on how you answer above what happens with Chain of Command and Mnemonica skills?

    2) If an EVO with an active supportware is Evacuated what happens to the supportware program?

    Once again RAW it doesn't meet toe cancelation conditions for the state due to lack of null state.

    3) What happens to Peripherals that are not in the Launch Room when the Trooper is Extracted?

    Servants, and Control specifically as it seems clear that Synchronized would be out of ZOC and thus get disconnected.
     
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  2. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Even, as is redacted, if some enemy peripherals were there they will be extracted too, at least in Spanish version, and If I don´t read wrong English one, it will happen same :)
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    In general to all of these I would apply the general game theory ruling that something that is removed from play is no longer part of the play. As such;
    1. Since you do not have a Lieutenant during the Check for Loss of Lieutenant step, you are in Loss of Lieutenant.
    2. Since the EVO Hacker is no longer part of the game, the hacking program that it is running is also no longer part of the game.
    3. This is the tricksy one and I can't see that the rules deal with this one way or another. I'd personally play the remaining Peripherals as Disconnected.

    I think you're reading the question wrong. This is not about the peripherals inside the launch room, but outside it. Spanish and English uses sufficiently similar wording that they work the same - peripherals outside the room remain on the table.
     
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  4. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    I just checked the english version and the spanish one, they are different. English makes reference to Peripherical the troup has inside the ROOM, in Spanish the condition is "to be in the room", no mention to who have it or not.
     
  5. Methuselah

    Methuselah Well-Known Member

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    The player’s Lieutenant must be in the Isolated State or any Null State.
    Loss of Lieutenant activation says: If, during the Tactical Phase of the Active Turn, the Active Player lacks a Lieutenant because they did not deploy it on the game table (as a Model or as a Marker) or the previous Lieutenant is currently in a Null Unconscious, Dead, Sepsitorized...) or Isolated State, then a situation of Loss of Lieutenant is automatically declared. [bold added by me]

    LoL list the ways you could 'lack a Lieutenant' and extracting them unfortunately isn't in the list.

    Further, Chain of command and Mnemonica both reference null state:
    COC: The player’s Lieutenant must be in the Isolated State or any Null State.
    Mnemonica: In order to activate this Special Skill, the user must enter a Null state.

    I think it makes sense to treat Extracted troopers as a null state that doesn't count towards army points killed by the adversary, but this needs clarification.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    This is why I prefaced the answers with "apply general game theory". Yes, it needs answering, but I think it is logical and perfectly serviceable that a Lieutenant that is no longer part of the game counts as not deployed on the table, simply because you have no lieutenant.

    Forgive me for running this line of reasoning based off of machine translation, but Spanish seems to group the controller together with their peripherals before instructing the player to extract any of the previously mentioned that are found inside the room.

    Functionally this would make it sufficiently similar to the English version where the same issue should happen regardless of language played in, if a player extracted a controller with the peripheral outside the room.
     
  7. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    Not currently deployed is fine. The LoL asks if the lack is because the player "did not deploy it" and in this case the player "did", indeed, "deploy it".
     
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