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Lackluster Spec Ops

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Steineriksen, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Steineriksen

    Steineriksen Member

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    So @Spitfire_TheCat brought this up in the N4 thread, but I really thought it deserved being it's own topic so as to not get lost.


    It made me think about the old spec ops we had access to. My favourite was the good ol' Hollow 1 mine layer. Disguise as a Jaguar and everybody thought it was a intruder standing next to him. We also used to have an AD option which was interesting. What we have now I see as just so vanilla.

    So my question to you all, how do you use the new specops rules to be interesting and not just a backfield multi specialist or swc free linkable gun fighter?
     
    Spitfire_TheCat likes this.
  2. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Nomads have been tighly revised in this N3. Is a dessign decision. CB doesn't want nomads to be at the top again (are not good poster guys, even when they are the top played faction, and one of the top sellers since the beggining), so if they have doubts about something, the "nerf choice" is the one CB will choose (or the buff to the other armies, as with the boost for bolts, only bolts, when they revised bioinmunity, not like with total inmunity, which they revised all factions). They did with full auto after the complaints in FB from some comunity, with tunguska's fireteams in the testing, with the remotes (they value more 360 visor than MSV2 or ODD), when all TAGs went to S7 but geckos because they were the smallest ones (and pano complained over and over again until CB changed the gecko's lore and put some of their TAGs in S6), and so.

    Spect ops had been a big dissapointment to me. We lost all of the funny options and what we got is not fun, not powerful, and not so usefull. I will not say we have the more feeble spec ops, but we have the most boring of them all. Only the multispecialist, the MSR+Mimetism or the CoC options remain. But (beware of the sarcasm) we have a brand new (and expensive) metachemistry or climbing plus on our vortex!.

    Well, I will stop the complaint. I think the mini-Mary (climbing plus, mimetism, specialist) could be fun, but 3 points for climbing are maybe too much, and I think is not so useful as it could be with other combinations. The mini-dart (climbing+mimetism+msv1) might be a good midfield hunter, but only the securitate (the others are too lacklusters for that), because he will lack tools. We could change mimetism or MS1 to give him tools, but then he will be too feeble. Minelayer or grenades are useful choices with a good cost, but hard to put in a useful platform (maybe with superjump and mimetism to create a mini-perseus, but will have a lot of problems to work. All of those combinations could be fun, but I'm not sure if those are worth it
     
  3. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    We just don't use spec-ops anymore. I was (and still am) so pi**ed about the change that I was constantly complaining about it (well for about a week or so) and so we deceided to drop spec-ops completely.
     
  4. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    You guys used something other than chain of command?
     
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  5. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Until now I had not much opportunities for using them. Two weeks ago in corregidor, the triple-specialist in hunting party, and the MSR+MSV1+minelayer in a defensive fireteam for button pushing missions. Nothing new, they did their job as spected. The CoC maybe will be more useful for vainilla or bakunin
     
  6. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    MODERATORS (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (WIP:13, Engineer, Minelayer, Hyper-Dynamics L1) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 10)

    MODERATORS (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (Minelayer, Repeater) Combi Rifle, Akrylat-Kanone, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Electric Pulse, Stun Pistol. (0 | 10)
    I'm going to play these two Spec-Ops with Bakunin on the Interplanetario and so far they definitely don't feel lackluster
     
  7. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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    I gotta say, after playing Nomads for ages, I have NEVER used a CoC spec ops.

    I learned to pay against a haq player, and leared to play through LoL. I learned to protect and hide my LT.

    I've learned to use LTs like Kriza and Swast as fire support and backup strikers and to keep them safe.

    I gotta say for those 8 exp or whatever it costs now, I'd rather have a Dr. Worm or whatever.
     
  8. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Can't go too far wrong with a wip15 doc, engineer, chain colt, d-charges and set him up with some zondbots. (Securitate base)
    Gets work done and that wins games.
     
  9. Steineriksen

    Steineriksen Member

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    Agreed you can't go wrong with tgat kind of set up, but it's nothing you couldn't do with other models in the faction.

    I agree on the COC comments too, I've learned to live without COC so have never needed it.

    I guess I'm doing too much of a cross faction comparison.

    I mean I love that haqq can take a specops hafza with jammer in a link and have only spent 4xp leaving plenty for a disguised DTW or LRL. That to me is an amazing spec ops and will be far more fun (not necessarily more effective).
     
  10. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I've learned to live without a million dollars too that doesn't mean I won't take it for free.
     
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  11. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    The multispecialist is good, but is boring in the end, it brings nothing new to the faction. The CoC at least brings an hability we don't have, and new tactics that we can try. That doesn't mean is needed or that we cannot live without it, is just an extra option.
     
  12. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    Problem is, it's not free, you loose the other spec-op Options. Although right now there are not many.

    CoC is boring for the Spec-op as well. He just sits there waiting for the lieutenant to die.

    And the same way the CoC-op enables you to use your lieutenant aggressively so giving you new options, the same way the multi-specialist frees up a lot of points and enables you to take other interesting unit combinations.

    I won't say the spec-op is bad. For 10 to 14 Points it gives you a lot of options, it's just that compared to other factions or to before the change and to some options that are more "nomady" it ... yes lackluster is the right word ... it looks lackluster.

    And while I like @Tristan228 s spec-ops, a) they are still only BS10 (or PH10 if you go for the dodgy spec-op) and b) the mine is pretty obvious, so not as much fun as a Holo-1 Minelayer.

    PS: I forgot to add Fast Pandas in my first quoted post. They would have been a nice option as well. When PanO gets Drop Bears we should get eithe Crazy Koalas or Fast Pandas.
     
  13. Penemue

    Penemue Watcher
    Warcor

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    Can you please explain this? How do you know it's a design decision to make the "nerf choice"?

    And what is this Full Auto nerf? FA2 is quite amazing.

    What used to be better about Tunguska fireteams? I don't recall anything in particular.
     
  14. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    nomads in the firsts ITS were a top faction thanks to its prominence in specialists. Although after some time CB decided to bring a good number of specialists to the other factions while making pushing-button missions more kill-da-enemy, and more affordable for those factions that blamed for pushing-button missions. But after those changes in the meta, some people still have the "nomads are the top" in their minds.

    The "nerf" in full auto, is its combination with suppression fire. At the beggining both malus were stackeable (even some testers said in the forum something in the lines of "that is one of the bests things of the hability and the mk12 profile"), but after some rants (the most I saw where in the FB page), CB decided to make up the rule and make it non-stackeable "because its the same kind of malus" (that's why feverbach or pistols could go suppressive fire, of course...) and is a complete order (the aro in SF is still a short one, a normal BS attack...). The reasons don't make sense. And is not the first time they change rules due to some part of the fanbase pressure

    And about the "preventive nerf" I have to admit is more a feeling. I mean, is with things like making the interventor link with grenzers (where white noise is not so good) instead with securitates (interventors are more used to work with securitates in the fluf). I think is because they didn't want to bring sixth sense so cheaply to interventors. Another example is the kriza haris, which gains almost nothing (FA doesn't stack with fireteams bonuses) in active turn for bringin 2 krizas, has no access to specialist, and for reactive is also not so good because they have not good weapons for reactive. They could put a kriza in a hollow haris with 2 hollows and make it more viable (it will still not gain much from the link, but the fireteam would be more interesting). Also, no wildcart but complex formations but at the same time restrictive ones (you cannot put a jumper perseus in a fireteam, you should bring the jumpling stempler for the hollows, no stempler in the hollows haris and so). Those fireteams are not so powerful (only the hollowmen core), so why make them so complex and restrictive when without those restrictions, would still be not so over? Is just that there are a lot of decisions where for other factions CB go the buff option, but for nomad go the other one. Another example, when they "nerfed" achiles, they checked its points, when bolts came out, the next day B came to calm people and the profile got revised twice then (and a third one not so much time ago until they got cheaper than wildcats, whose weren revised when corregidor was revised). We got the geckos fluf altered (from beign the smallest TAG that even pano knighs didn't know a TAG could be so small) and lost ODC (wich was our tool to compete in shotting. It was over so is good for it to be gone) without getting extra punch for its loosing. I might be mistaken, but is what I've seen in these years.
     
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  15. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Sometimes individual things are just too strong and need to be modified. Nomads have had plenty of things added. Find me a faction that wouldn't take Kriza and Jaguars.
     
  16. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but that is the same with achiles, swiss guard, sujian, ghazis, chasseur, etc. Each faction has something that others would like to. But while kriza is one of the strongest pieces in nomads, it would had much more competition in other factions, and maybe even they would say that the profile is lacking in BS for a so much elite beast
     
  17. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Vanilla Nomads are pretty strong competitively I think. But the sectorials and the specops especially do seem to show the lack of close loving attenton which PanO used to complain of and now seem to be showered with lately. Corregidor is ok with its update but Tunguska and esp Bakunin could use some touches like those mentioned above. Tunguska might be the best looking sectorial tho, so that's pretty great.