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Lack of Hacking support in OS?

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by paraelix, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Is anyone else confused by the lack of Hacking support tools in OS?
    We have the following repeater sources;
    Lamedh
    Daleth
    Probots
    Rudras

    And the following Pitcher source;
    Danavas

    And no access to deployable repeaters.
     
  2. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    From what I see OSS is supposed to move its hackers and Repeaters up field as part of their assault, rather than rely on deploying Repeaters separately. We have a fair share of hackers in sectorial, most of them can be in some kind of a link, and pretty much every one of our Haris teams can drag a hacker or Repeater while it advances. Additionally there's no downside in deploying a Daleth + 2xLamedh - I came to relying on them a lot as my primary anti-camo tool, and they provide a superior Repeater network at the same time.

    Looking at other armies - the only one that can use Pitchers or Deployable Repeaters in any kind of numbers are Nomads; other factions have one or two units equipped with them, but most of them fights for place in the list with other, often more useful options. And I'd argue, that our hackers are on the same or better level as Nomad ones; we don't have the same diversity, but we still have them in every price bracket, with access to different skills and weapons. Also, ours clearly win when it comes to durability and linking potential.
     
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  3. Artichesus

    Artichesus Member

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    OSS have a crazy amount of hackers though.
     
  4. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Actually, it was Hassassins and those cheap-as-chips Barid that immediately came to mind. They be some cheap, efficient Hackers.
     
  5. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Barid is great, and let's not forget about Zeros. But then let's look at Nagas, Dasyus, Mk.2, Deva AHD, Asuras...
     
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  6. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Ran an 2 lists on the weekend - one with Asura and no Lamedh, the other with Lamedh and other hackers. The Asura always felt super lacking in repeater coverage but, at the same time, the Lamedh never felt like they had opportunities to advance in my other list - I got away with a single move+sniffer order on one, and the other just remained a Flashpulse ARO all game.

    Guess I'll just have to smash out some more games and deploy them differently.
     
  7. The Revanchist

    The Revanchist Well-Known Member

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    I feel like Nomads have always had more coverage when it comes to hacking. That's, in part, what has contributed to them being considered the Hacking Faction.

    ALEPH and Combined have historically had more powerful Hackers (with an argument for the Interventor) that are also more dangerous units (like the ASURA or Charaontid).

    That being said, I'm not surprised that we didn't see a number of Deployable Repeaters/Pitchers crop up. That actually wpuldwhave surprised me. I don't feel like there's a distinct lack of support, just that we compensate by having more versatile Hackers.
     
  8. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    If I were to go for a hacking-heavy OSS list I'd probably field something like this:

    [​IMG] Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SHAKTI Lieutenant Hacker (Killer Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Sucker Punch) Mk12, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40)
    [​IMG] YADU Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 35)
    [​IMG] RUDRA K1 Marksman Rifle, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (0 | 42)
    [​IMG] DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21)
    [​IMG] DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] PROBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] PROBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.3 Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 21)
    [​IMG] DALETH Rebot Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] NETROD . (0 | 4)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Yadu Haris is the toolbox assault piece. It has the firepower and flexibility to go into midfield and dominate it against pretty much anything. Dakinis act as support firebase; I've omitted the traditional MSR in favor of full burst. Posthumans are on hacking support/specialist duty, with Mk.3 acting as a secondary assault piece (alternatively it can be used as a schmuck bait, going deep into enemy territory on turn 1 to make opponent chase after a durable unit for no gain). And Daleth/Lamedh squad should use Coordinated Orders to go into midfield, deploy Sniffers, and guard Yadu Haris against Camo, while providing Repeater support.

    Alternative would be to include Asura hacker in exchange for radically cutting down the support structure, maybe to teh point of creating a Limited Insertion list.

    I'm not entrely happy with it, trying to put an OSS list together is really a case of going into a giant toy store with too small of a shopping basket. But it's a start.

    To compare, ASA hacking-focused list (of all PanO sectorials I consider ASA to be the hacking powerhouse).

    [​IMG] Shock Army of Acontecimento
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SCYLLA Hacker (Assault Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser + 2 Devabots Charybdis / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0.5 | 37)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] DEVABOT CHARYBDIS Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (7)
    [​IMG] BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
    [​IMG] PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] REGULAR (Sapper) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 22)
    [​IMG] REGULAR Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16)
    [​IMG] REGULAR Hacker (Hacking Device, FastPanda) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23)
    [​IMG] REGULAR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    [​IMG] AKAL COMMANDO Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  9. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    If you want a strong Hacking list (but still generic enough for all missions), try something like this:

    [​IMG] Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] ASURA Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device Plus UPGRADE: Redrum) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 78)
    [​IMG] SHAKTI Hacker (Killer Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Sucker Punch) Mk12, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40)
    [​IMG] RUDRA Red Fury, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (1 | 40)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] DEVA (Assault Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21)
    [​IMG] DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] NETROD . (0 | 4)

    4.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    It's lacking great advance support, but it can work. Asura, Shakti, Rudra form a Haris (you'll be spending Command Token reforming that link most turns though, to take advantage of extra Lt orders on Asura). Don't forget Rudra comes with a repeater; it makes it a bit dangerous in some cases, but can be great for engaging enemy Hackers via your own repeater too.
    List provides 3 amazing Hackers in 2 perfectly decent links, with an ARO piece in form of Posthuman Mk.II. However, it lacks infiltration and it can be easily Alpha-struck.
     
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  10. Styx

    Styx Cat.IE~~

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    I don't think are the SSO lack on hacking support tools, deployable repeaters are strong issue or great advantage. If you going on a heavy hacking game, pick Danavas and EVO... pitcher+Maestro and kalidoscope/reboot, she does the same job like the Asura or another A.hacker but you have alrready to go with more chances, and you can add 3 of them, 2 H+ and 1 Assault. Also Apsaras as a cheapest killer hacker on 19pt.


    [​IMG] Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] DEVA (Fireteam: Haris, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] DEVA (Assault Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] ASURA Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device Plus UPGRADE: Redrum) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 78)
    [​IMG] APSARA (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] PROBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] DALETH Rebot Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    3 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    An example focused only on a uncommon heavy hacking game.
     
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  11. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    @Stiopa LT hacker without camo and CoC ? You really like to live dangerously.
     
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  12. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    It's a risk, not a death sentence ;)
     
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  13. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Against Moran it is :P
     
  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Shame so few of them are 0 SWC... In fact, Shakti and the Apsaras hacker are the only new ones over the old Vanilla, and yeah I know there are more AVA on Dasyu and Nagas, but Vanilla also got the Apsaras and Shakti.

    Remember: Aleph has a similar but more concentrated problem like the one of Corregidor with the SWC: it gets spent before we realized it, but instead of small drops everywhere, those are huge chunks before we realized it (3 hackers, 2 HMG Dakini, an mk4 posthuman, the Samekh, the frigging Apsaras with Jumper... )
     
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  15. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    Deva AHD+Lighting is also new, and also very useable in vanilla. There's technically also Yadu AHD, but no-one except Stiopa cares about that. :-P

    Errr... What?

    For one thing, Apsara with Jumper does not cost SWC.

    Or are you talking vanilla? In which case, Apsaras with Jumper can only benefit a Rudra or Samekh joining a Duo with Yadu, after you've included EVO hacker and activated Team Pro. It's as senseless a "trick" as deliberately choosing an AD:Combat Jump Lt.
     
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  16. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Still 0.5SWC. The Deva is superb, mind you, but I see him mostly for Fireteam Protection with the Asura (spitfire) Haris or the Dakini team, in Vanilla the Devabots, Sensors and Spitfire will still be the king profiles because of the competition when it comes to lone hackers.

    Ok, I've been using for so long the profiles as seen in Codlfront that I assumed the Apsaras was 1 SWC as Jumper LZ in OSS and in Vanilla... Frankly, I see little to no sense (as with so many stuff CB does) to deploy the single apsaras we can as Jumper Lz in vanilla, since as you say it demands the TeamPro supportware, which demands also the creation of said duo (so 1 command token), for a point cost that is little less than an Asura with Multi Rifle...

    Happy to know the Apsaras Jumper costs 0 SWC in OSS, surprised she needs any kid of SWC tax in vanilla considering the limitations the buff has /shrug
     
  17. regelridderen

    regelridderen Dismember

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    I would love to see net rods carrying repeaters, so there’d be reason to deploy them in a more aggressive pattern.

    But between REM and the Danavas, we’ve got plenty coverage.
     
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  18. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    I kinda wish the kiranbots from the arjuna had repeaters. At the massive cost of that model with bots, repeaters would give a huge benefit. Still don't see me using it at that cost but helps (2 bots and spitfire is 40 points!)
     
  19. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Show of Force/Frontline - the TAG centric missions where the TAG needs to stand on the objective. That's where I see their value, just spending a few orders spamming cybermines and then setting up in ARO positions near the objective.

    Less so, probably in Limited Insertion events, because people will bring either TAGs or Heavy Infantry links.
     
  20. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    Or a 30 point naga with mono mines. Mono mines kill everything. Or shoot a repeater nearby from the danavas (or run a lamedh to a corner as well)

    Or mk2 assault hacker. Or darts/mk5's e/m grenades. Or rudas' k1 marksman rifle

    We have loads of ways to deal with high arm models that need to come close. A spit or hmg are even good weapons if they are outside of cover.

    I don't think a 40 point 1 wound without atleast no-wound incap is a safe bet and that is why I think she is bad. K1 marksman rudas is 42 and he is way better.
     
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