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Kurage Crisis Winner?

Discussion in 'OOC' started by Kiwi Steve, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Kiwi Steve

    Kiwi Steve Well-Known Member

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    First of all, I really like the fact that Corvus Belli offer the chance to be involved in these global events. I recognise that this is Corvus Belli's event and fluff and they can do and say whatever they want, regardless of stated objectives or point outcomes.

    That said, I'm puzzled at the outcome. Perhaps I've just missed something, but reading the downloaded event introduction for both phase one and phase two there were stated objectives; generally these were worded along the lines of "It is compulsory to accomplish both missions to control this location at the end of the first stage." or "It is compulsory to accomplish all three missions in order to have full control of this location at the end of the campaign." Obviously these varied slightly, in the cases of locations with fewer nodes.

    So based upon this stated objectives, by my understanding, the following locations were held at the end of phase 1:
    Duban: Haqq
    Johnny 5: Nomads
    Kurage Station: not sure but I believe this had no victor
    Lafeyette: Ariadna
    Panoc: PanO
    Zhan Huo: Yu Jing

    The following locations were controlled at the end of the event:
    Dawn Aplekton: Aleph
    Duban: Haqq
    Johnny 5: Nomads
    Kurage Station: No victor
    Lafeyette: No victor
    Panoc: No victor
    Zhan Huo: Yu Jing

    So unless I've completely missed something here; the faction scoring for zones would be:
    Phase 1: Haqq, Ariadna, PanO and Yu Jing
    Phase 2: Aleph, Haqq, Nomads, Yu Jing

    So combined score for both phases:
    Yu Jing: 2
    Haqq: 2
    Nomads: 2
    Ariadna: 1
    PanO: 1
    Aleph: 1

    Based on these results, beyond my opening statement that this is CB's event and they can do whatever they like, I cannot understand how Ariadna are declared to be the winner; rather than Yu Jing/Haqq/Nomads. Is there something I have missed, or have the objectives we were told at the start of the campaign been ignored?

    Regardless of the result, I enjoyed the event and am grateful to CB for running another event.
     
  2. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    last year Ariadna scored most dominant faction. by holding their own zones but Also flipping other zones, if only for a short while. so flipping zones Also gave points

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  3. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    It seems they decide the winner using arcane Math, but the most used data are Tournament Points, Objective Points and Victory Points, then normalized so factions with more players won't steamroll every other faction (this was what allowed Tohaa and Aleph to win anything this season, btw).

    Nah, those are "achievements", not "you win points for this".
     
  4. Captain927

    Captain927 Shotguns and Scotch Runs.

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    Bottom line it was overall points. Due to numbers of wins and points scored. This of course was buffered by being the largest faction represented, but still having 3 points per win.

    If one wants to argue controlled zones, Technically Yu-Jing and Tohaa are the only factions to have gained more than they started with. Yu Jing held their territory at the end of each phase, as well as took one zone of the JSA base. Tohaa had no zones to control, but gained one from Ariadna. Ariadna held both of their zones at the end of phase 1, but lost their zone to Tohaa in Phase 2. But they also gained a zone from Pan-O. Overall net 0 gain.
     
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  5. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    In my personal opinion the campaign was very unbalanced. From a Nomad point of view I didn't understand why we got a double penalty by getting less points per win and have to defend two locations after this already didn't work out last year.

    Nevermind... now about the fairest faction thing: Isn't it a suprise that one faction (Ariadna) has a massive positive win-ratio over all factions? Either Infinity is that hard imbalanced which I doubt or sth. is strange or this wasn't that fair.

    And if you compare and estimate numbers from Aleph and Nomads, for example, it isn't that crystal clear to me that Aleph was the fairest faction since both factions have the similiar percentage ratio of games played/ignored+downgraded. Although I have not all the numbers and have to guess/estimate based on the video.
     
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  6. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Camo is one of the strongest/easiest mechanic to use, and it forgives a TON of mistakes.

    Not to mention that even ITS10 bonus to AD it's not that scary when camo effectively gives you a 360 visor for 1 use (enough to secure most of DZ with 1 or 2 camo's).
     
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  7. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Contractor for Bureau Aegis

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    If simply holding on to a faction's territory was the way to win the campaign then there would have been no point to attacking

    Either way, we don't know exactly how the numbers translated into wins. We do know that proportionally Ariadna did the best though.
     
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  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I'd say that, if % are the same, then Aleph has win the "less amount of dirty plays" by simply having less absolute numbers: if there were, for example, a 20% of "dirt trick" reports, and there were 1000 nomads and 200 Aleph players in the game, then Nomads made 200 bad reports, while Aleph made 40...

    So it's not that Aleph is more honorable or less prone to dirty tactics, it's just that it was among the least played factions!
     
  9. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Contractor for Bureau Aegis

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    If percentages had been used instead of totals those graphs would have looked very different. There were a couple that were pretty darn high despite having significantly lower player/game count :thinking_face:
     
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  10. Kiwi Steve

    Kiwi Steve Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that anybody quite got my point. We were given a number of zones, (e.g. Duban, Johnny, Lafayette, Panoc23) along with specific instructions that holding both zones at end of phase 1 and holding all three at the end of phase 2 was compulsory to be considered to hold a zone.

    Despite Corvus Bell giving us these specific instructions, they then award the "winner" title to a faction which fails to have full control of a zone.

    Why give us instructions/missions if they count for nothing?
     
  11. Beodren

    Beodren Well-Known Member

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    That is the important question! One of the biggest dramas in the campaign was fact that the start of the pdf considered all NA2 zones unassailable, while the missions stated otherwise. in the end it seems it that requirement for holding all three point was either reworked or a mistranslation of some sorts.
    Then RAI of the rule suggesting you have to hold all three zones would make campaign a turtle fest, which... well, wouldn't be fun at all. This may be why Ariadna got rewarded for launching multiple assaults. Still as much as I am happy that Ariadna won?
    I think YuJing is the greatest winner. and should be rewarded in lore.
     
    #11 Beodren, Sep 7, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
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  12. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    This will not happen, cause JSA got the plot armor.
    If they would have lost two locations, the station would be lore wise still under their control. Why else should you make an exclusive zone.
     
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  13. Kiwi Steve

    Kiwi Steve Well-Known Member

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    I agree a turtle fest wouldn't have been fun but there were still factions with no locations who could wreck havoc. Aleph had a good go at the Nomads phase 1, and as Strikezone wotan tells us they are quite capable of winning. Tohaa got Ariadna when Ariadna tried to stretch for another point. These are uphill battles but the point system was there to help this year.

    The issues I see are the concept that there should be just 1 winner. This isn't a tournament and outcomes aren't mutually exclusive; a narrative campaign doesn't have to result in a single winner, and if there is a single winner declared it should be because they completed the narrative.

    If you must have a single winner it should have been Yu Jing, the only faction who held an entire theatre and took another location.

    If nomads had gotten Aplekton but still had less wins than Ariadna, would Ariadna still have won?

    I'm a Nomad player and can accept we didn't win because we failed at Aplekton, and that is significant from a narrative point of view for nomads.

    Personally I agree with a statement I've seen a few times: Yu Jing got robbed. The achieved the most: one site dominated and stopped another faction dominating a site but instead the winner is...the biggest faction because they had the most wins even though they didn't actuality achieve the objective.

    To me this is the equivalent of a football game where at full time they decide to award the win to the team who had the must possession despite fewer goals.

    The event was really fun and this is more important than the result I just feel a little underwhelmed by the quality of the ending.
     
  14. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    That's my point. From the numbers shown in the video Aleph was just as dirty as Nomads, so I am quite disappointed by this presentation. It was boring to watch (they could have shown every numbers they liked and it would had no entertaining effect) since we got no plot/aftermath to the campaign as well as not enough information like clear numbers and percentage values etc.
     
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  15. Jandrus

    Jandrus We're naught but humble pirates!

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    This is the same discussion carried out after Wotan.

    Laika Dog-Girl Now
     
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  16. Majorpain

    Majorpain Member

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    I think by nameing a single winner had been a mistake and handing it to the faction that got the most points by virtue of having the most active players feels wrong. Only 4 factions succeeded according to the mission documents we were given aleph (my faction) held the aplekton and secured a foothold on dawn. Haqqislam secured their own interests on the island and increased relations with the nomads. Nomads got their network set up and held off the aleph assault (congrats on that one was a tough fight) and not only did yu jing hold the fire base they contested the JSA facility so in my opinion they should be the true winners here
     
  17. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    We won as Ariadna and I think well earned.

    We did more then just rake in the points as Ariadna. We were not the biggest faction, but had the most contributors and did it all with 3 points per win #kuragehardmode. We had the best win/loss ratio. The most upgraded reports. We fought on the most fronts. Ariadna fought the most opponents and beat most of them. We flipped the most zones. We went on the attack, while on defense, on a constant basis. We were the most infamous. Influenced the course of the campaign on our home planet. Our objective was to beat combined first, but they were not aviable, so went for the next one on the list: pano, and we did. Kept most of our base. Or as Bostria would say: performed the best on all parameters. There where less awards to give, cause Ariadna took most of them.

    And within the faction we had a blast, fighting on a knive edge on different fronts and proving historical wars wrong, that multiple fronts can be done succesfully. The morale was high, with a good Ariadnan spirit going. Everybody gave their best, cause Dawn, our home, was on the line. The drive to achieve was huge because of it. You will see when we campaign on some other factions home planet, that they will give a strong performance.

    We took the pano crown, so that is good news for the whole sphere. Bringing balance to the universe

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  18. Beodren

    Beodren Well-Known Member

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    I agree on most points, but there is issue with factions without bases: they had no points at all if we stick to the rules. CA, Tohaa practically started off doomed, unless they would pile in upon Aplekton, and due to the draft of the rules we had: it meant facing off Aleph, Nomads, Haqqislam and potentially Ariadna. Which... well, makes ONE spot in the game a hotspot, and makes it nearly impossible for smaller factions to get it due to competition, while other spots would require ENORMOUS amount of battle reports.
    I agree there should be more than a single winner, especially since there was a lot of interesting twists lore wise:
    Nomad and Haqq Alliance defying Aleph was certainly fluffy. And in this conflict I think we both have to agree: Aleph was fighting it's heart out there, alone against two smart and well coordinated factions. I have to respect that, even if I firmly cheered for Nomads.
    PanO ad YuJing showdown that was caused by supporting JSA claim on installation, leading to Ariadna outrage was fluffy too. cause it led to lorewise sensible alliances. I wish that was reflected in plot.
    Maybe instead of stating: and the winner is, we could get some nice lore love? I know it may not be likely, but I want everyone to know I enjoyed the campaign and respect both the effort and how it all unfolded, from the desperate "Shore the walls" at Lafayette, to all out final attack meant to take over PanO base, I had a lot of fun. I have to admit, in the end, when fake reports made the odds seem terrible for Ariadna, i almost faltered due to how invested I got.
    I would love to see the lore reflect the... well fluffy aspect of the campaign, but CB has a story they want to tell, so one of the ways they can make their playerbase feel they achieved something is by offering titles and rewards.
    Ariadna was given title of winner, since in the end we held three locations and had most wins. We also were faithful allies (this time) and most active faction with a lot of excellent report. With how this campaign turned out, I am sure choosing winner was a task I would find very hard.
     
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  19. Sergej Faehrlich

    Sergej Faehrlich Well-Known Member
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    Yep...it is. And again I think that having an "overall winner" is counterproductive as there are simply too many unbalanced factors...and that's not even a real problem for me personally.

    Ariadna simply feels the right one if we want to have something like "the big dog winner"...they just perfomed excellently in any respect. For me Yu Jing is probably the one faction who made the most of this campaign (not because I played there of course). So if there are two "over-achievers", it would be Ariadna (showing Pan0 their place on Dawn) and the State Empire (teaching the secessionists a lesson).

    Still I would say that each faction achieved something (maybe besides CA....booo...losers ;)) and that should be the core of what we get out of campaigns: make it worthwhile and give your games some purpose. Haqq diplomacy was a cool a move as was Tohaa being the overpowered nuisance for Ariadna. All of that deserves respect and an honorable mention. Pan-O and Nomads not making as much of an impact as we might have xpected would still leave some room for them focussing on their achievements...there is always some gain to focus on.

    That's not to say that I do have some issues with the AI recalculation only being conducted afterwards. That has been discussed already, but the "true numbers" probably would have lead to different strategic decisions...actual 20 poins to presumed 50 points would have made a huge difference for Yu Jing players to be motivated to go for Kurage ROC...in retrospective that was well in reach and would have made for a brilliant outcome...maybe not for the assumed "plot armor" but for Yu Jing selfesteem. Ariadna succesfully defending and conquering at the same time was equally realistic in that regard. So there might be some room for improvement on how to handle high and low quality reports next time: that process should better be done as we go along. It might not get the perfect scores, but as long as we are closer to them that would certainly help decisionmaking.
     
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  20. Captain927

    Captain927 Shotguns and Scotch Runs.

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    Maybe a timeline for completing reports? 6 hours once someone submits to fill in all details and link if possible, otherwise it is disgarded? The amount of "details coming soon" or just a hyperlink to another persons report was surprising to me.