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Kuang Shi questions

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Hsien, Oct 2, 2020.

  1. Hsien

    Hsien Active Member
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    Hi all!

    New question about kuang shi fireteam and some rules:

    We lose biolocator - that apset, it was interesting device.(really want it back)

    But where is kuang shi control device? Is was deleted from the game?(If yes we lose very interesting and unique mechanics) Now i can pick kuang shi with out it? Because i didn't find any restriction or it's a bug, and we still have to buy cg with KSCD in order to take them? If yes - for every group or just 1 for list?

    According to the wording of fireteam - Up to 1CG must be a part fo kuang.. Is it legal to use any option of CG?
    For example - CG with msr+4 kuang shi)

    In cg options we have the same cg with smoke lgl as in kuang shi, so the question is - are they different? because for the bilder it's not. And can cg from kuang shi option be part of cg fireteam?
     
  2. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    You have to buy the CG listed in the Kuang Shi profile and the app doesn't properly register errors yet:
    kuang.JPG
     
  3. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    It appears that the celestial guard profile in th Kuang Shi entry is “magical” and allows 1-4 Kuang Shi to be selected in the same order group.

    This forces an odd ratio of one smoke launcher to four Kuang Shi even if you have other Celestial Guard in the order group, which is bizarre given the absence of the Kuang Shi Control Device.

    Couldn’t we just have any Celestial Guard unlock four Kuang Shi slots? Or have a single controller unlock all the total AVA of Kuang Shi in an order group like in N3?

    Tactical Window already heavily restricts available slots, so having to burn one on a redundant loadout really means 5+ Kuang Shi are never going to be seen again in ISS.
     
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  4. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Please note the extra border in Knauf’s image. Although Army doesn’t make it clear enough yet, you are now purchasing a block of that specific Celestial Guard, plus up to four Kuang Shi.
     
    chromedog likes this.
  5. Longman

    Longman Member

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    So the special fireteam rules should be removed from the standard celestial guard profile. That will clear it up a bit which celestial you need to include.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the Fireteam rules care which Celestial Guard it is. The smoker when purchasing the Kuang Shi is necessary to purchase the Kuang Shi, but is otherwise just like any other Celestial Guard

    Until the change the Kuang Shi to be Peripheral (Control) of course. *goes into hiding as the Yu Jing community sends a Bao hit squad to my last known address"
     
  7. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    This.
     
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  8. Longman

    Longman Member

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    So you have to have the smoker to have access to kung shi but the fireteam could include any one celestial guard with kung shi.
    Thats interesting, i did think that was just a mistake.
     
  9. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    Please could we add "Fireteam: Core" back to the Kuang Shi Celestial Guard unit entry then. As written it appears that the Celestial Guard under the Kuang Shi entry can only form the special core and not join a regular Celestial Guard core fireteam. The absence of that rule opens up an ontological argument about "when is a celestial guard not a celestial guard".
     
  10. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    There's also a bug in the ios app, where you can't make a valid list if kuang shi appear in both groups.

    On my iphone the only way you can take more than 4 kuang shi legally is if they're in the same group with two controllers, moving one controller and his buddies over to the second order group breaks things.
     
    #10 YueFei23, Oct 6, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  11. HotFreshTofu

    HotFreshTofu Well-Known Member

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    This information is all terribly presented. If you try to add Kuang Shi without the Smoke launcher Celestial Guard, it just says "the kuang shi must be in the same group as it's controller". However, the only indication that the Smoke Launcer CG is the controller is grouping them together, like we have seen above. It does not have written text regarding that anywhere as far as I can tell. You do not need to run them in a fire team, so that point is irrelevant here.

    Further more, the CG tied to the Kuang Shi is somehow magically different than the one in the main CG box. Despite being identical profiles, the KS CG is ava 2, and the normal one is ava total...

    but they are the exact same profile.

    Did they just not want to write a rule for Kuang Shi Controller / control device?!

    "Kuang Shi Control Device" (give this eq to the special CG). "A Kuang Shi Control device is required in order to field Kuang Shi. 1 kuang shi control device can control up to 4 Kuang shi. An additional Kuang Shi Control device is required for every 1-4 kuang shi in addition to the first 4. "

    sheesh.

    guess we have to just give them the benefit of the doubt that they forgot to type that part in or something.
     
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  12. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Yes, it is.

    Because it’s not needed, assuming the interface for picking the units in Army gets made clearer.
     
    the huanglong likes this.
  13. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Looking at the profile in Army, is there anywhere other than the list validator that I’m supposed to be able to know that one controller can only support 4 KS? Units like antipode packs, überfall, and traktor mul are all much easier to understand, and other units like posthumans have more explicit rules via a special skill.
     
  14. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    An aside here - they did a really deep clean of unnecessary and one-off rules in N4, and I think it’s fair that Biolocator got cut. I was actually really surprised that it survived intact in HSN3, because the N3 core book was much more aggressive about pruning those sorts of rules than the expansion was. N3 core got rid of things like Braces on the Maghariba and Coma on the Daturazi, so I was definitely surprised that Biolocator wasn’t also cut.
     
  15. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    Do you know anywhere to go look at all the defunked rules? Our group started pretty much as the wiki was being switched over to HSN3 so It'd be interesting to see everything we missed out on.
     
  16. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I too am interested in what Coma did
     
  17. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    I think this is a reasonable direction to go, it just hasn't been executed perfectly. With some tweaks it will be fine. I think there needs to be a rule or name for the magical celestial guard, just to make the penny drop for new players that something special is going on. If he's called Celestial Guard (Kuang Shi Controller) at least it makes him different from the entry in the Celestial Guard section. Also it needs to be clear he can link normally with regular Celestial Guards, so the Fireteam: Core rule needs to go back on him.

    The move to regular impetuous moves has buffed Kuang Shi, and while I'm sad it's now really awkward to take an order group with 5 or 6 Kuang Shi I have been able to put together some fun lists with two controllers and 2-3 Kuang Shi in different order groups. They cause validation warnings on my iOS app still, but I'm sure that will be fixed and the validation messages will make more sense soon.
     
  18. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    You can probably find the N2 pdfs online... somewhere.

    Coma was a special skill unique to Daturazi that let them spend an order to voluntarily fall unconscious in order to become a repeater for sepsitor attacks. Back then, sepsitor was a no lof zoc attack like hacking or jammer.

    Braces allowed the maghariba guard to carry other troopers, but the rules were kind of janky.
     
  19. Hsien

    Hsien Active Member
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    Soo, if i understand you correct.

    1 CG from Kuang shi block allows to get 4 Kuang shi?
    What about ISS - they have ava2 unique CG and 8 kuang shi - what i do there? Can i pick 1 cg+8 kuanghsi in one group or i have to pick 2 cg?
     
  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    1 CG smoke launcher per up to 4 Kuang Shi and combat group.

    If you want more than 4 Kuang Shi you need to have 2 CG from the separate AVA. If you want to spread the Kuang Shi out into two Combat Groups you need to have one CG from the separate AVA in each group and at most 4 Kuang Shi per group.
     
    ijw likes this.
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