Both the Kriza Borak and Taskmaster have lieutenant profiles. While it may be an obvious lieutenant, it is a resilient troop and it will always allow you to use their order. So : did someome try one of them as a lieutenant and what is the feedback ? Does it works ? How ?
In bakunin i use the taskmaster a lot as liutenant. Koalas make him easy to protect in your deployment, has a nice variety of weapons including Direct templates, and can defend ktself in CC if needed competently. Aldo tinbot And martisl arts make him difficult ti hack. But S5 makes him easy to spot and is far from inmortal so beware Normally i will put him on Suppresive fire the first turn with the LT order, and use him as backup or secondary hitter if needed on later turns. He tends to survive the battle on most of my games, but not all of them.
I normally run with 2 interventors (1 KHD 1 LT) and most ppl know this, they are normally super safe, even TO surprise hack attacks vs 1-2 interventors is super risky business (LT just picks defensive program while KHD tries to kill the attacker) and often not worth attempting. However I sometimes go up against hassasins, so sometimes to mess with them I got with kriza LT as it costs no different than my normal lists.
I use Kriza HMG Lt pretty well on tournaments with 12 XP Spec-Op option, it allows to take Chain of Command for 8 XP and so mitigate risk of LoL.
Yea, I have done this as well (although I prefer the SMG/MK12 Version). In vanilla I have only taken the Taskmaster as an Lt without a Spec-Op option. I usually take him if the tournament is Decapitation or a similar mission. Otherwise, I don't really think aggressive Lt.s work as well in vanilla at the moment. The problem is that since we don't have CoC options, we don't have incentive to move them up into the fray, so they get used as back-line gunners. Problem is that now they are competing against Intruders and Reaktion Zonds in that role.
I do this with the Mk12/SMG like McTrouble said, but if I can't take the Spec-ops I usually have two Krakots if I do go into LoL. By the time my Lt dies (be it the Kriza or an Interventor) I'm already in a good position so LoL isn't as significant, I get a lot of work done with Irregular orders anyway
LoL can be managed, but what is the real benefit of taking a Kirza LT? One free order? I can get one free order that I will always use out of an Interventor LT that is far easier to protect. Whenever I've run a Kirza it always goes down. He takes a lot of points with him, but he is to dangerous for your opponent leave alone. Since it doesn't matter where the free order come from as long as I use it, I stick with the Interventor.
The benefit isn't JUST who is the Lt. I frequently run lists with a HD+ interventor, a red fury swast, and an HMG Kriza. Which one is the LT? You don't know, and none of those profiles are deadweight in a list. Having even just two of those profiles makes any attempt at lt assassination risky business. When I take these profiles my preference is generally the swast lt. He frequently is also a data tracker. He makes good use of the extra order when going to kill enemy desginated targets, and between koalas, MA, a tin bot, arm 5 and bts 6 is a tough models to remove. He's normally a backup fighter compared to Kriza or Intruders so he normally get to terrorize after more threatening pieces have been removed. I like the interventor too, but she can go pop from a KHD, sometimes I think it's just too risky. I also tend to take fewer remotes thrn most other people so she doesn't "always" have something to do with her lt order (other then cybermask). The Kriza is sometimes the lt, but he's normally the primary gun fighter in the list. A bad turn of luck can quickly stall your turn and put you in lol.I normally like the other two choices for lt more, but switching it up keeps your opponent guessing.
I like to take non-hacker LTs in this day and age, Kerr-Nau pinging a Pitcher at you and then blowing your brains out is a Thing these days, and keeping your LT somewhere else pays I feel. Krizas don't cost any additional SWC to be LTs, they're able to potentially get good use out of the order in a pinch, and they're pretty tough. The Taskmaster Red Fury is slightly better at that IMO, as he's got the Koalas, Pulzar and a degree of combat capability at all range to protect him and again, no additional SWC. Generally it's nice to have 2-3 possible LTs in your list so as to protect from douchebaggery. Although the best Nomad LT for pure resilience and potential use in late game as a great gunfighter is probably the Intruder. Only problem is 35pts, but still, they're really effective.
I used a Taskmaster LT in a Limited Insertion, 200pts. event in a Firefight. If you do not rush him against entire enemy army this guy is pretty survivable. Koalas, Deflector, big body and good loadout. Once there's an opening you can go in and get the job done. Otherwise I'd rather Interventor HD+. 25points worth of cybermasked, supporting and very ARO-worth of miniature, which is really using up that LT order a lot and is difficult to take out even with a KHD. Love this guy. Best Nomad LT ever (IMHO)
Is this really that common? I've had plenty of killer hackers trying to blow my interventor's head over repeaters and it's always the same: Sucker punch them back and either blow their brains out or just make them realize this isn't such an easy win. Maybe I'm just lucky. As for the thread topic: I HATE using Super Heavy HIs as Lieutenants. Unlike the interventor, they always die, always too early, and always in a stupid way. Again, personal experience here, but I really prefer to have a hacker LT that can stay on my deploy zone, prone on a roof, and just be an all around dick with fairy dust, assisted fire, controlled jump, white noise or the ocasional hacking ARO.
Dice calculator says my skullbuster naga, with surprise attack, has 37% chance of wounding the interventor using breakwater and 49% if the interventor use sucker punch. Other factions KHD would have roughly the same percentages (34% against breakwater, 45% against sucker punch for a zero KHD against interventor) While it's not an auto win, it's a viable option. Checking those stats was the reason I opened this topic.
I'd say you might be. If you're using Sucker Punch through a repeater fired by Bit+Kiss or Kerr-Nau (or indeed through any repeater deployed by anyone), you're at -3, then another -3 when they inevitably use RedRum. In Kerr-Nau's case he can benefit from the team's Deflector too, so that's -9! B1 on 6 vs B 2 on 11s is bad odds, even with BTS 9 to protect you (which still only passes on an 8 with two saves needed). It's not a sure thing for them, but even a WIP 13 Because bouncing through a deployed repeater is likely to win the ftf and potentially kill your guy, and Inteventors are as tough as it gets. You can protect with Cybermask... but you can't start with it on, and you need to invest orders. It's just a nasty weakness that it'd be fine with a regular hacker having, but not really my LT.
The 'defence' against this is a broad repeater network and multiple Hackers. You want them to use your Repeater so that you can ARO with all your Hackers. What this means is that it's pretty well a suicide run for the Naga: KHDs should be Trinity'ing back, other HDs should Brainblast and the HD+ LT should Sucker Punch. Basically it becomes a single long shot rather than a viable option. Particularly if you have a Kriza HMG / RF TM / lone Alg in your backline (and missing SWC). EVO running Kaleidoscope also helps a lot. I find Interventors are fine with those odds (but they never leave home without their KHD buddy) but Custodiers are too squishy to be Lts.
I don't see 45% as a good percentage. Maybe it's because I'm usually the one running two or three hackers (Either Interventor LT+Bandit KHD, or Custodier+Zero and sometimes an EVO on top of those.) so whenever someone tries to hack me over my repeater net they get hit with 3 hacker AROs. I'm yet to face a Kerr Nau so I guess maybe he could make me rethink that strategy, but as is I still dislike the use of Super Heavy Infantries as Lieutenants in Nomads.
Even with a KHD+Pitcher. To reliably get that to effect an Interventor in your DZ you're looking at ~2 orders to move into position and fire the Repeater (with ~84% chance of getting 1 in position to cover the Lt). You can probably deploy your KHD in a position to complicate that shot, with the Interventor towards the back of your DZ (so lets call it 3 orders, with the 4th being the hack with about a 1/6 chance it'll fail and Kerr-Nau will go Unc and break the Link*). With both Bit and Kerr-Nau you're probably looking at enough redundancy to be assured to get a repeater down to cover the Interventor; and a second KHD in case the first bites it. But at this point it's turning into a full turn 1 LT assassination play: something more easily executed by a Speculo anyway. Which is probably the bigger risk taking an obvious 1W LT vs CA. *The odds on getting unlinked Pitchers to cover an Interventor buried in the DZ are, frankly, awful. So the *best* way to execute this play is to get a linked Kerr-Nau to do the initial Pitcher laying and then follow up with Bit to fight the Interventor. Bit still has ~1/6 odds of dying in a 1v1 vs an Interventor.
You're most likely going to lose that Naga to an unopposed ARO though, because I will always have at least a second hacker. Trading a 30pt model for a 45% chance of putting a wound on a 25pt model to give me one round of LoL is quite the gamble. It could payoff big in some situations, but if I mitigate my LoL with command tokens and doctor that LT back up you'll have gained very little.
The added risk to Interventor Lt. from KHD makes them a debatable choice instead of borderline invincible like they used to be.
