Greetings! My lovely partner has got me an anniversary present in the form of the Knights of Santiago box, as I have been drooling over the models for sometime. I am, normally, a Nomads player, and haven't touched Pano since I first bought Operation Icestorm, and I have never played against them either. Being still a relatively noob to Infinity, and definitely a noob to Military Orders, i was hoping people could give a spot of advice around what to run alongside them. I know that the core link requires Joan or Magister Knights (I am guessing Joan is always better!), and that some specialists are probably a requirement given their only having a paramedic, but any advice would be hugely appreciated so I can dispense some righteous fury to his Yu Jing!
Magisters are amazing, and their slightly cheaper cost lets you maximize 5-man link bonuses without paying for the full higher-cost link team. Magisters are also very good at supporting the pricier Santiago/Hospitaller knights with good support weaponry... Panzefausts to deter heavy threats, shotguns to enter the 8-inch zone of death and do damage, Hyperdynamics to trip mines/perimeter weapons and perform Engage AROs, and good all-around CC stats to help mix it up in combat. Magisters are great in a link. For the Santiagos themselves, the profiles you like will depend on what kind of Infinity missions you play. If you like ITS missions, you'll probably be grabbing a Specialist to help you interact with objectives. Whatever the case though, you'll be happy bringing the Spitfire as a fire superiority piece, and don't forget the usefulness of those E/M Grenades. As far as general support, you'll need some long range units to help close the distance. Santiago knights have more of a short-range emphasis, so take a look at Specialist Sergeant Snipers for support. Even the Fusilier HMG and Sierra TR HMG are decent choices for long-range. The Forward Observer Spec Sergeant is always nice to have as well, either as a stand-alone piece to help you grab objectives and skirmish in the midfield, or for support your link team with antipersonnel mines and strong Suppressive Fire coverage. I'm not an MO expert though. Paging @eciu
Strange, seems that notification are not working for mentioning someone (at least this one hadn't @barakiel ) ;? Ad rem: Santiagos are quite interesting option (with superb sculp, they are sooo old comparing to "new" Hospitallers and still look great if now even better than new Knights of Saint John). It's hard to avoid comparing them to Hospitallers. In that comparison Santiagos trade longer range weapon (HMG) for medium range Spitfire, good specialist Doctor for worse Paramedic. What the Santiagos do gain is 360 visor (little bit redundant in big links, but still usefull, as SS2 doesn't work if you are not attacked), and interesting side weapon of E/M grenades which will make every nearby HI/TAG very, very nervous (especially when they reallize that in 5 man link team you can speculetive fire them on 10s within 8" xD). Santiagos unfortunetaly have little worse armor (-3 BTS comparing to Hospitallers) but do gain ZeroG which might be usefull in some missions (RESCUE for example). Santiagos also have nice DTW in form of Nanopulser so might be much more usefull against camo heavy factions (Ariadna, Haqq) having secondary option to "discover" camos ;) (or just simply melt brains of several bunched up dudes) As Barakiel mentioned Santiago compose quite nice with Magisters Knights for 5 man link team. Thou the lack of HMG in link, you really need to take alongside MO workhorse so TO MultiSniper Order Sargent (tbh. I still always take him even if I have Hospitallers with HMG). A bit unique and "cheap" option is actually to go with Santiago DUO. You can make a nice small team of Spitfire+Specialist (or BSG). This weay you can keep for example Order Sergeant CORE team for cheerleading and ARO duty (MSR or HRL). This works especially well with missions which doesn't require heavy button pushing. Funny thing is that you can spend Coordinated Order and put every Santiago into Suppressive Fire, making few (up to 4) 360 visor turrerts with Religious (they don't drop SF if they got hit by something) and 2W :D (just be carefull for smoke, hackers and >>24" ). Personally I don't like Joan+Santiagos link. It's quite a bit more expensive than Hospitallers and doesn't have a trusty doctor for reliable heal of your wounded knights. It's not a "bad" option just much more difficult than Hospitallers (you also suffer more from lack of HMG, as you have less points to buy replacement). Remember than MO usually has a bit of trouble getting out of DZ (we don't have smoke, strong CAMO options, nor plan B :( (plan A is "shoot everything")), so taking Santiagos you have to be extra carefull not to be locked down :) Here are few lists which I find "nice" for running santiagos :) (they arent super duper optimal, more of a good start for personal experiments) This is what I would call "standard" Santiago DUO list. You have core ARO link (HRL) with secondary weapon (Spitfire). Fusiliers provide orders and some anti-hacker defense (Fairy Dust). If some KHD want to hunt down poor Fusilier HD digged up deep in DZ let him waste orders to do so. Standard pair of TO Order Sergeants allow you to kill primary threats and score objectives. Pathfinder is here for specialist duty, 3rd wave of attack piece (remember Marksmanship) and/or some camo discovery (Sensor or just +6 to Discover). Also remember you can link Fusiliers in MO so in dire need you can have B4 Combis. Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 44) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18) GROUP 2 6 SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) 6 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army This list has 7 (you actually could swap a Peacemaker for backup Magister and leave ML on ARO duty if you go 2nd) HI and should be able to kill quite a lot of stuff. If only your magister ML don't die to enemy MSR and you get out of DZ they you are golden ;) Massed ARMOR ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 3 KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 44) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 44) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) 5.5 SWC | 297 Points Open in Infinity Army This is some experiment list which I've run, it failed but mostly due to me having a Crusader instead of obligatory TO MSR so I've updated it. Joan runs a "sudo Haris" (so not full CORE link, as MO was "blessed" with a lack of Haris fireteam). Jaon and electric friends ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 8 2 JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 44) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) SPEC. SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher + AUXBOT_1 / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) SPEC. SERGEANT Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) SPEC. SERGEANT Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GROUP 2 4 FUSILIER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18) FUSILIER Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14) FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) 7 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
I would agree that he has good taste, but then I am slightly biased! Thank you so much for that advice, it makes a lot of sense, and some of those lists look really rather fun too! I am probably leaning more towards the HI heavy lists, as I want to run as many Knights as humanly possible. I have been thinking about what to buy to expand out, and I think I'm going to get the Magister Knights box, the order sergeants box, Jeanne D'arc, a Black Friar (Because the model is amazing, and I can proxy him as a TO MSR OS), and possibly the Order Sergeant with the spitfire, does that sound reasonable? I've already got a Father Knight and 3 Fusiliers courtesy of Icestorm. I suspect that I probably need to add the Pano Support Pack to that as well? I know people will suggest getting remotes, but I'm loathe to do it given I have about 6 unpainted Nomad remotes, so I figure I can just proxy at this stage if I am using them. Peacemaker is the only one I might consider, but given how far behind I am on my painting already... One other question, I'd swear blind I read something about the availability of orders being 4 for the chosen one for the list, and then 2 for any other non-chosen knights, but I can't find it anywhere. Is that the case? Thanks again though, that is incredibly helpful as I was struggling to find much online (I suspect a lot is in the old forums).
All fine models, I would go with a new Order Sergeant box and try to find/proxy the Order Sergeant MSR, you can always proxy it but "original" one is quite nice (it's only part of MO starter atm. though ;( ). Black Friar is nice miniature and quite usefull on table. If you find right target, your MSV2 + MultiRifle will pay dividens as it can really hurt even big monsters like Avatar. Support pack is not that important for MO. Usually if you want the doc you take Hospitaller Doctor ;) It is. TBH funny part is that it's not written anywhere (to my knowledge) but a ARMY application. You can take up to 4 Knights "Confere" (so members of Hospitallers, Santiago, Teuton, KotHS, Montesa) and up to 2 other "Confere" knights. Mind that Magister Knights, Father Knights do not go into this limit (they are not "confere" knights). Well I've wrote a topic regarding MO here :) (shameless advertisement) I hope you find it usefull: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...m-et-sequere-me-300pts-box-wip-10-02-18.1098/ If you find something missing or have other ideas for it leave a comment ;)
I'd be thinking about something like this: Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 3 KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 44) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 3 1 PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army But I'd be the first to admit that's all about surrounding the Fireteam Core with a nest of support over fielding maximum Knights. If I wanted to to the latter it might look like this: Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 8 2 3 KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 44) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32) JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KNIGHT OF MONTESA Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Shock CCW. (1 | 48) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
What is the thought process behind the Evo hacking device @AdmiralJCJF ? I've never found a reason to use them in Nomads tbh. And thankyou @eciu ! I've been having a look through that today actually, and a lot of it makes sense. I've put in an order for an Order Sergeants Box, Magister Box, order Sergeant with Spitfire, Knight of the Holy Sepulchre (will use to proxy Joan, as I just don't care for her model), and the support box as well. I will probably buy the Knights Hospitaller later in the month which will round things out nicely. With a few Nomad remotes as proxies, i could run pretty much any of the lists suggested. My current ideas, which are for no particular missions but rather just for fun and frolics: Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 3 KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) MULTI Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 41) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 44) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18) BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) 5.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army Magisters and the Santiago's run as a fireteam, with the Black Friar and the Spec Sergeant able to hunt out problems. The Knight Hospitller can send his Palbots after the fireteam, and probably leave one with whatever else I think is very risky, whilst then running around on his own, as he is able to do objectives too. Fusilier lieutenant hides, and the hacker casts fairy dust and does bugger all otherwise. Any list with a tonne of E/M stuff shuts this down pretty sharpish, but thats a risk I'd have to take!
@herod1204 Well regarding Magister knights, they are getting resculp. A bit convtroversial one (imho). Just letting you know (old sculp are much more "dynamic" and fitting to their role/abilities than a new "static" poses). @List: Looks ok. It's a "10 order" list but has quite a few specialits, obligatory TO MSR and actually secondary assault piece (Hospitaller with Palmbot). Remember you can use your palmbots as sudo "smoke" as engaged units are "blind" :) (also if you get both Hospitaller and Palmbot in b2b with someone your Hospitaller will hit with a sword on B2). Magister ML in 5 man link can be a quite nasty ARO piece (remember MA gives you Courage so you can always chose result of your Guts Roll).
Ahhhh, just had a look at those now. I quite like them, but I think I prefer the old poses (conveniently). I may buy some of them further down the line, but they aren't pressing. I quite enjoy 10 order lists, and have been running some quite punchy 10 order bakunin ones recently (hello Riot Grrls!). I'd heard that Hospitallers are quite nasty as solo assault pieces as well, so that Palbot trick is good to know. I won't be able to try it out until next weekend, but good to know it doesn't have any horrifically glaring mistakes! Wouldn't be enough specialists or orders for something like comms centre, but something that is direct action only, it would probably do quite well.
I would usually run an EVO for Reboot while a Fusilier Hacker ran Fairy Dust to cover the HI Fireteam as well as PanOceania ever can. But on this occasion the points ran short so it ended up being just the one rather than both. Of course, you can swap the Pathfinder and Tech Bee for a Fusilier Hacker and WarCor to get what I was originally going for.
Ahhh, that makes sense. I am used to just running a clockmaker in Nomads, and of course all the Grrls or Taskmasters have Tinbots which makes life easier. Thanks!
My favorite dumb list has a Santiago Duo in it. I like the fact that the Spitfire LT gets an SWC discount, and the load out on them compliments the rest of the list well. Hospitaller HMG 4x Magisters, APCCW 2x Hospitaller Combi Doc Santiago Spitfire LT Santiago Paramedic Fusilier FO Like I said, it’s a dumb list. Not a lot of specialists, very vulnerable to assault hacking. But it’s a hell of a blunt instrument and someone that doesn’t have a way to kill through that much armor and that many wounds is going to have a bad day. Plus, it’s super order efficient. Great for Biotechvore. And I don’t think I’ve ever had more fun playing this game!
My god those knights hit hard. I just tabled my partners JSA in what can only be described as a blood bath. Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 3 KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE Lieutenant Combi Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 51) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 44) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41) MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I know this isn't an optimal list, but I had to give the Knight of the Holy Sepulchre a try, and it was a glorious moment when his Keisotsu link ambled towards what looked like a fusilier, and turned out to be a lot nastier than that! MVP was the MSR spec sarge, no surprise there, but the knights just wrecked everything in their path. Having come from a Nomads background, I'm not used to playing such an aggressive force, and it was amazingly good fun. In the future, I'd probably swap the KotHS for the Hospitaler Doctor Palbot setup, and make the Fusilier the Lieutenant. Could do to fit a hacker in somewhere as well, but no idea where to do it! But thank you all for your thoughts and advice, still a tonne to learn (namely a Knightly Wrecking Ball is not always going to be the answer, just most of the time), but I am incredibly excited to keep on Deus Vulting!
Downgrade KotHS Lt to Teuton Lt (one abomination into other, at least cheaper one) and upgrade the fusilier to HD. Obviously you could do that if someone up in CB hadn't decided that Teutons for some reason need to pay 1 SWC for Lt option ^^ But hey get used to being PanO ;P This is getting boring.
