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Kiel-saan "only with draal saboteurs"

Discussion in 'Spiral Corps' started by Rushforth1980, Nov 22, 2019.

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  1. Rushforth1980

    Rushforth1980 New Member

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    Kiel-saan special fire team triad A says " only with draal saboteurs" what does that actually mean?

    1) 1 kiel-saan and 2 draal
    2) 2 kiel-saan and 1 draal
    3) 3 kiel-saan and 0 draal
    4) all of the above

    New cool Kiel-saan model out today.
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    1 & 2. Three Kiel-saan doesn't include any Draal.
     
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  3. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    Taagma should be wildcard... Just saying Tri-Core on that would be worth it
     
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  4. Spellbreaker90

    Spellbreaker90 Well-Known Member

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    The problem of Kiel-san it's his point cost. Neema offer better option at less cost.

    I think Kiel saan need to go down in point or getting better profile option.
     
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  5. melkiach

    melkiach Well-Known Member

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    I love Kiel Saan solo
     
  6. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    First step for making Kiel Saan anything but shit is to get rid of the utterly bonkers link restrictions. I don't get why they would exercise such restraint in Tohaa of all factions in a timeline where Kamau wildcards and fireteams with both smoke and MSV2 exist.
     
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  7. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    I've been nothing but impressed everytime I've fielded the Kiel Saan, what makes everyone here dislike it so much?
     
  8. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

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    I tried a Kiel-Saan once. He had his Symbiont Armor shot off by a Libertos which left him hiding behind some boxes in fear. Had to go save him with a Triad that took out the offending fishman.

    Really it was just bad dice luck, but not a brave first outing for the Kiel-Saan on my table.
     
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  9. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    Thats fair we all have those moments that sour us on something. Were you running with or without the mate? So far I've been running Mate Free.
     
  10. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

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    I haven't used Symbiomates in years. It's not an interesting choice to me personally. I have enough trouble getting what I want to play with in my lists.

    With all that said, I have not run a Spiral Corps list yet. I am itching to try it, but I love vanilla Tohaa so much it's hard not to play them. When I do try Sprial I want to try the Kiel-Saan/Draal triad.
     
  11. clever handle

    clever handle Well-Known Member

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    He's in a list selection for an event that includes both Looting & Sabotaging and Hunting Party, or if I run up against something like NCA that is going to be immune to the silly tricks in my other list.

    I don't expect great things. I don't build a list with him around linking him up. Every time I put the Red Fury Kiel-Saan on the table he impresses. Whether coordinating with my Taagma sniper to take out a hard ARO piece (linked Kamau or Haidao for example) or rushing across the field to tear apart the opponent's AC2, there's always been something meaningful the Kiel-Saan has contributed that makes me glad he's there.

    I run mine with Symbiobombs for the versatility (and cheapness!)
     
  12. Spellbreaker90

    Spellbreaker90 Well-Known Member

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    For me it's the point cost. 10 point more than Neema+Spitfire. For 53 point other army field HMG heavy.
     
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  13. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Yep, pretty much inferior to Neema where it counts but with these bizarre link restrictions just for it, as if it was on the verge of OP or something.
     
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  14. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Or the Kiel-San could just get the regular triad rule. I really don't see how letting a Kiel-San triad is any better than Neema.

    I really don't see the purpose of special triad at all tbh, it has no place in Tohaa or Spiral Corps.
     
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  15. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    I would strongly prefer fixing this problem by removing Wildcard from Kamau instead of adding this to Kiel Saan...
    Valid point, though.
    I actually never played the Kiel Saan due to his price cost and being S5. I prefer Neema Saatar for her being S2 (easier to find cover and take only fights I want), cheaper and way more flexibility in terms of fireteam composition. The price of +1 Burst has a cost so steep, I would definitely avoid all and every fireteam combos currently legal. Iwould not bunch up Draals and a secound Kiel Saan but probably would want to spread them out on the table. So yes, there is an opportunity cost for forming a fireteam.
    Looks fine as a solo piece, though lacking the real gun in HMG hurts a lot...
     
  16. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    It's not so much making it a wildcard, just making it a Triad, the Tohaa thing.
     
  17. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    :point_up_2: This....
    It'd be nice... I want my Draals doing other things besides escorting this brute...
    It doesn't make sense... He's a CC HI monster... Why Draals???
     
  18. Manfred_VR

    Manfred_VR Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts, Kieel saan is inferior to Neema but the model is very cool, both, the box one and the new blister one, so better link options please, and maybe a 3rd profile, a bloody HMG for our army, I miss the Sukeul...
     
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  19. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I started off thinking that Kielsan was vastly inferior to Neema. On paper its pretty much the same unit, sidegraded to red fury/panzerfaust instead of spitfire/template, and 10 points more expensive. But when I looked deeper, still on paper, he seemed to have considerably more game.

    6-2 movement, NBW and metachem are legit upgrades. Even +1 ARM, generally the worst metachem, makes him ARM 5 which is something to pay attention to, and he can potentially get extreme movement abilities which make him very potent.

    Unlike Neema he can operate outside a triad without becoming Frenzied, and doesn't need to bring two weaker models with him for full effect - the triad rule can be a mixed blessing sometimes. I feel he is stronger individually than Neema but weaker than a linked Neema, useful if you want to attack without potentially losing three models in a counterstrike.

    Quite crucially his not needing a link combined with the panzerfaust makes him something that Tohaa or Spiral can use for coordinated orders to a decent effect. Tohaa is super lacking in targets for coordinated orders and I feel Spiral isn't much better.

    I still think he's generally worse and for the most part is poor design due to the extreme overlap with Neema. But those points above are enough that I am starting to trial him in lists and see how he goes.