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Khawarij - are we need renaming?

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Daireann, Jul 8, 2021.

  1. exiti

    exiti Mad Scientist Gorilla

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    I remember reading A-Better-Haqq and this issue did make me think. A possible change (Sort of how CB remade the Janissary fluff) would be to make Khawarij the code-name for the Runihura (Destructor) process during the R&D phase. The name just stuck after it was revealed, the same way Tanks got their name. A suggestion at the very least.
     
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  2. Ardeshir

    Ardeshir Member

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    They can easily be named Mubarezun and it would work just fine.
     
    Urist likes this.
  3. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Well, it's because that linked article is, generally speaking, extremely cringe.

    "Orcs are thinly disguised as us to represent how the author is scared of brown people"

    Imagine being such a racist that when you look at an Orc, you think of black/brown people.

    However, the article is not entirely without merrit.
    The article more or less summarizes the entire issue with Haqq in general.

    "Orientalism has its roots in the colonial study of everywhere east of Europe as a single, agglomerated mass known as ‘The Orient’. It had its roots in two principles: First, everywhere outside of Europe was basically alike in important ways, they were mystic, backwards, fundamentally irrational and psychologically weak. Second, only Occidental (Western, used to mean European) thinkers could comment on and solve the issues plaguing the Orient, the people they were talking about were to be ignored at best, actively dismissed and excluded at worst. This was notably criticized in Edward Said’s Orientalism and has been a topic of significant debate since. While the nature and specific ideas espoused by Orientalism have changed over time, they’ve never gone away and they’ve never stopped hurting people."

    I don't agree to the extent of which this, borderline deranged author, claims it "hurts" people, but he is mostly correct that Haqqislam is pretty much a Lawrence of Arabia-style depiction of an Islamic nation, with all the "mystical" aura of the "noble" foreign East.
    You could also say that Haqqislam is basically an Islamic nation, depicted by a Westerner who have "filtered" and "fixed" Islam from the perspective and values that are held by the West and not the actual culture itself.
     
    #23 Zewrath, Jul 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  4. Cadwallon

    Cadwallon Well-Known Member

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    Please, can you explain the meaning of the Word. I'm curioso about that, but Google can't find something.
     
  5. Urist

    Urist Well-Known Member

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    Mubarizun مبارزون means Champions or Duelists. They were a specialist designation/unit during the Rashidun Caliphate during the 7th century. Basically the champions of different regiments who were sent to duel the opposing champions before the actual battle started. The name is kind of mythical, and the people chosen were supposed to be the bravest and strongest warriors. The most famous example is Ali ibn Abi Talib, Muhammad's cousin, 4th caliph, and first Imam of the Shia Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mubarizun

    I like it a lot better than Khawarij, it fits them as the perfect champions of the Haqqislamite faith. A Mubarizun is mythical in status, just like these super soldiers of the Runihara program. I associate the word Khawarij with watching news to practice my Arabic in college and seeing groups like ISIL being described as Khawarij/Neo-Khawarij. I think I will start using Mubarizun to unofficially refer to my mini-Tariks. Though it does make Tarik's name and title kinda funny. Tarik "The Man" Mansuri (which already means "he who is victorious", Mubarizun Amir ("Lord of champions"). I mean it fits, dude is a beast, but it's funny.

    Also one historical note; the most famous Mubarizun I mentioned, Ali, was assassinated by the historical Khawarij while he was Caliph.
     
    #25 Urist, Jul 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
    vorthain, 15-Krykk, Daireann and 8 others like this.
  6. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    IIRC, Infinity Tarik's fluff (1/2ed rulebook, I don't really recall how it was in the later ones, but I gguess the same) claims that Amir is an actual military rank in the Sword of Allah, translated into English as "captain" (OF2).
     
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  7. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    While I am interested in these discussions these always unfortunately lead to contemporary politics, and this without deviation leads to discussions that are not for a forum about toy soldiers, fighting in a fictional future.

    Contemporary political discussions are not allowed in the forum, there are so many forums and places on the internet for that.
     
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  8. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Haqqis initially a bunch of NASA guys in the fluff, making Haqqislam americans, "occidental" folks, turned to a very modern philosophy vaguely connected to Islam?
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    CB habitually names most units after modern or near-modern organisations who are still relevant, instead of creating their own mythos. This invites these sorts of criticisms, so when CB names a unit after a terrorist organisation or an authoritarian murder and abduction unit, these conversations will crop up and criticism for how those units are handled are inevitable.
    I think the first step to avoid these political discussions is for CB to start being a lot more careful about what names they choose and do some serious due diligence when they pick those names. Though preferably - don't.

    The remnants of NASA (and their families) were hired by Haqq to facilitate getting off this stinking rock.
     
  10. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    While I will partially agree, and such discussion have been done in the past, the forum has chose that they do not want contemporary political discussions and some of the posters involved in such discussions do not show the eloquence and reservation posters in the forums past had about such sensitive topics.
     
  11. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I feel like the issue with Khawarij for me is less that the historical Khawarij were terrible people (they were) and more that the use of the name seems at odd with the character of the unit and the faction.

    The Kempetei were fucking awful people, but in the case of the JSA the use of the name ties into the historical revisionism, the lies of the kuge, the lack of political understanding and historical knowledge of the average Japanese person about their own cultural past due to various external factors like it being peddled by ethno-nationalists fighting for independence rather than ethical historians etc etc etc. With the Knightly Orders to me that works; they are veteran soldiers cosplaying as knights as a form of PR for the largest bank in the Sphere, a corporation that has tied itself into a massive religion to create a particular selling image. To them the image of the Orders is what is significant.

    But the Khawarij are supposed to be the ideals of Haqqislam as a military unit, and Haqqislam is supposed to be about Islam as a modern, humanist movement. So for me, that doesn't fit. Because certainly the Khawarij in history don't feel like they'd approve of Haqqislam at all. So there's an incongruity there.
     
  12. Cadwallon

    Cadwallon Well-Known Member

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    I like the term Mubarizun but try to suggest another name for them.

    The word is Adalid (spanish) which derived from delid or dalil. The current meaning of the word is different that the original one.
    Adalid is a military rank in the muslim military during his time in Spain. His functions consits in guide the army and gather information. Normally they used horses for the task. They must be muslimswith a good reputation.

    I think both shared to be light troops and very mobile, well considered with his fellows with an elite status.

    At least, we can be ideas for future troops for haqq army.
     
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  13. Jaguen

    Jaguen Member

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    y like the name of khawarij ...dont like the name of adalid or derviche too, if change the name...Mubarizun is better options.
     
  14. Lareon

    Lareon Well-Known Member

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    They're all very good options, but I absolutely love the history and meaning of the Mubarizun name. It would be extremely well fitting for this unit.
     
    Daireann likes this.
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