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Kestril's N4 Aleph Adventures

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Kestril, Nov 14, 2021.

  1. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Usually two Devas. Asura SF, Deva Hacker, Deva Sensor. Mainly because my Yadus are not painted yet and I have no Parvati. The Rudra looks a bit akward to move, but ditching out mines on way to a target could be a nice idea to set more pressure.

    @topic: I never used Hector because I do not own his mini. In theory he is a potent Lt that has good protection on his own. Both weapon loadouts are tempting. Plasma for a nearly certain damage if it goes through and the Spitfire for the burst. X-Visor is very nice to shoot things far away (idealy if they are out of range themself) and the Strategos gives him more versality as a Lt. then Achilles who is the slightly better fighter. I would prefer to play him in his sectorial. But he is very useful in vanilla also.
     
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  2. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Asura got a bit shafted by other things getting vastly bigger buffs.
    It's not her that's bad, it's the competition, already ahead of her, getting further ahead. Marut got a big point slice and his stat value is better for the pricetag. Add in the 15 slot limit and the playing field changed to more expensive models, making the "overkill" of a BS15 MSV2 MHMG a lot better, by shooting less cheap chaff and more expensive troops, on top of other TAGs that require an anti armor solution.
    Achilles got an even bigger buff than the Marut. For the ODD guy he never loses Cover for a reasonable price change, but more importantly the ODD can't get burned off anymore.
    V2 got a yet even bigger buff than that, by getting a ridiculous rebate and an AP upgrade to his Spitfire on top of ARM6 being significantly more valueable than in N3.
    Achilles got a little less deadly in CC against scrubs by losing MA4's +1 B.
    That said old MA 3 with +3 DAM and new Crit rules favoring high DAM is still plenty deadly.
    The Asura also sits on the sidelines because a Faction littered with WIP15 is significantly less reliant on Sensor and MSV to discover any Camo.
    Most things also have NWI or are multiwound and have a DTW to double down with Intuitive Attack and can stomach taking a hit.

    Small nitpick - Frenzy triggers at the end of a Player Turn. Which means you still get a full Turn 1 with Achilles able to claim cover, and then it goes away when it's your opponent's turn.
     
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  3. Kestril

    Kestril Active Member

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    I'm back from thanksgiving, so now it is time to go over a certain popular sniper we are all thankful for: Atalanta

    There is many-a blog post and top 10 list that espouse Atalanta as the "best sniper in the game!" Or portray her as some invincible ARO piece that will win games single-handidly. Well, maybe not single-handidly, the little bunny bot helps, too.

    Lets get one thing out of the way to clarify about our gal with her kawaii robot friend: she's not.

    Atalanta is ~40 points into one wound. She has no marker state, no defensive mods like mimetism or holoprojector, no mobility skills like climbing+ to reposition, no forward deployment or infiltration to ensure she has a good sniping perch, no specialist abilities, and no hidden deployment.

    What does this mean? Well, if your opponent has one command token and at least two models that could see Atalanta, she is in trouble. All it takes is one coordinated order for your opponent to bypass her strengths with a normal BS attack roll, stick a wound on her, and then that's ~40 points down the drain.

    If you want a sniper that is hard to remove, plinks at the oppoenent from far away, and has that extra wound as assurance, you've got other options. The Proxy mk II has two wounds and mimetism and infiltration, the Dasyu has mimetism(-6), infiltration, and hidden deployment. The dakini tacbot has mimetism and would generate two orders if you want to throw an Aspara pilot in for that 13 BS, the Nagas could be a cheaper middle-ground for a marker-state sniper.

    This may sound like I'm down on Atalanta, I'm not. I just bring these up to explain that she isn't a sniper.

    She is a duelist.

    Atalanta is like that one friend you have that really got into playing Super Smash Brothers back in the day. If all three of you teamed up, you could probably beat her, but none of the group could ever win in a one-versus one.

    Atalanta: No items. Fox only. Final Destination.

    Why? Well, Atalanta gives up all the aforementioned sniper trickery to be the best shot in the game. MSV2 means she ignores mimetism mods. Marksman means she ignores cover modifiers. For things outside of 16" she hits on 18's in the face-to-face roll and there is nothing the opponent can do about it*.

    And when she hits, she hits hard with DA or AP ammo at damage 15. The only other weapons that are better are viral weapons and AP+EXP heavy stuff like autocannons or missile launchers.

    Having the insane face-to-face odds makes Atalanta an active turn monster, and her unsurpassed BS 15 nullifies the weaker range-band of the 8-16" that snipers can struggle with. Atalanta is the prime pick to duel linked monsters like the lone ranger, or take on the link-team sniper in a 1v1 duel. When you want something gone, Atalanta can beat it. If they hide behind a marker, her bunny-eared spotbot helps her discover+shoot. Her 39 point option is a 16"+ active turn beam-sword, cutting through any long range threat your opponent has dared to field.

    Then, for five more points, she gains Total Reaction.

    Now she can cut through opponent's models on the reactive turn as well. A well-placed Atalanta is a terrifying to remove. No one wants to gamble against a 15 Damage B2 that hits on 18's and forces two armor saves per hit. The first few times you use her, your opponents will be floored, and you may pick off two or three of their orders on their turn with some good ARO's.

    But that will only work once or twice, and then people get wise and start forming plans to deal with Atalanta the ARO piece. You'll soon have to dedicate more of your list to protect atlanta from impersonators, infiltrators, airborne Deployment, spec-fire grenades, Mirage-5. . .

    Atalanta becomes much more of an investment than what's expected. Of the two profiles, I think the 44 point TR profile brings more to Vanilla. It essentially gives you access to a B2 link team sniper in a vanilla faction. When viewed as such, the price-tag is competitive in comparison to other link teams, especially since Aleph has netrods to make up the lack or orders elsewhere.

    So, overall, while she is powerful, I have a hard time evaluating if Atalanta is worth the points, or if other sniper options can do the job instead. Did I need Atalanta to pick off a link leader? Or would a Dasyu do the job instead? Do I need Atalanta to shoot through smoke, or will the Agema marksman save me a few points? Did I win that F2F because of Atalanta? Or because I played the rangebands right and put her where I'd put a Proxy sniper anyway.

    Like learning to wavedash in super smash brothers, it becomes hard to tell if the investment is worth it, even if you can beat anyone else one-on-one.


    *Except for Surprise Shot, White Noise, and Eclipse Smoke. The first still leaves most models at a F2F disadvantage and the second two are very rare.
     
    #23 Kestril, Nov 30, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  4. Kestril

    Kestril Active Member

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    It's who? Dasyus!

    I'm always puzzled when I read something along the lines of "The Dasyu is overpriced, take the nagas instead." Or other things that suggest that the Dasyu is superceded by the other midfield options Aleph has. This isn't the case, The Dasyus has a tool other midfield camo doesn't have: hidden deployment. The key thing to getting the full value of the Dasyus is to use all the tricks and traps hidden deployment offers.

    The simplest way is paying up that 1.5swc for the multi sniper, hidden deploying the Dasyu on a tower somewhere, and waiting for the opportune moment to shoot. The Dasyus is good as far as sniping goes, with an effective two wounds, ODD, and surprise shot, but without MSV, they can be shut down by smoke fairly easily. This Dasyu is best revealed when taking an ARO late in your opponent's turn, so they have to choose whether to hide away their exposed troopers, or sink the last few orders into taking out the Dasyus. If no opportunity arises, then it's a bad feeling, as lower cost troops, like the sniper-rifle posthuman, or the sniper-rifle naga could have done the job of overlooking the battlefield with a sniper rifle for less points.

    But what if I told you that was only the tip of the figurative iceberg. What if I told you there was another skill that made better use of the Dasyus' hidden deployment. What if I told you that everything you know about the Dasyu being sub-optimal was a lie. I can only show you the door. It is you that must walk through it.

    Infiltration. The Dasyu has access to infiltration and hidden deployment. Mathmatically speaking, this means that the area your opponent has to consider for a potential Dasyu doubles. In game-terms, this means that the Dasyus other loadouts become more effective ambush weapons.

    Normal camo markers are usually to discourage enemy models from moving towards an area. A hidden deployment model encourages enemy models to move through a seemingly clear zone. Try predicting the path of an link team, then hit multiple models with the small template from the nanopulser, hack one of their models from the shadows, or take an ARO with the -6 from ODD and +6 with the shotgun range-band, a +12 differential, one of the largest in the game, and one your opponent literally can't see coming.

    But it doesn't stop there. To use the Dasyu to it's fullest, you must free your mind. If you're going second hold the Dasyu back in reserve. Then, deploy it on the table as normal and use a command token to put this ninja-hacker in suppressive fire. With mimetism(-6), suppressive fire(-3), cover (-3) and two "wounds" to chew through, your opponent will have a tough time getting around him. If the Dasyu gets even one kill, he's made the command point worth it, as that's one order that your opponent won't have access to on turns two and three, making it mathematically similar to spending the command token to burn two of their orders.

    If there is a downfall to the Dasyu, it's that he has to operate in the midfield where common weapons can negate his strengths. Templates from shotguns, flamers, and nanopulsars will ignore his mimetism(-6), and the massive amount of SMGs and MULTI-rifles will turn off his no wound incapacitation with all the shock ammo. This makes the Dasyus no less powerful, but it does make them harder and less forgiving to use, tricky, just like the tools they bring.

    Is playing near 40 points worth it for that bag of tricks? I think so, at least to keep my regular opponents honest. But, if you use a Dasyus like a Naga or a sniper, then probably stick to those other units that don't require such finesse to get their value.

    ------​

    I want to do a review of one of the robots next, but I'm not sure which one. I'm choosing between these three:
    • Rudra Gunbot
    • Dakini Tacbot
    • Garuda Tacbot
    Let me know which one you want to hear my thoughts on, and I'll be sure to include them in a few lists for my upcoming games.
     
    #24 Kestril, Dec 4, 2021 at 1:14 AM
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021 at 10:26 PM
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  5. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    The Dasyus have always been my favourite troopers. Thanks for the fine tactical advice. I like your comparison to the nagas, too. A lot of good aspects you are mentioning.

    Please take a look at the Garuda. It is often, that I prefer it to the Dasyus, because of lower points cost and the different angles it can attack from in my active turn, which is my reason to take either of them.
     
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  6. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    On Asuras: it SUCKS that vanilla don't get the Hacker Lt. I don't care if she is good or not she's one of the coolest things in the faction and the game. CB plz fix
     
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  7. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    And its mime -6 :-) Definitly a thing, I should try out. I think the diffeculty in this is to find the right spot, so no one should be able to attack him from 24"+.

    I have to admit, that I rarely play the Dasyus and get some bad luck with him, killed be a chain rifle etc. but if you act carful he can be a great tool to take out enemy troops even in the enemy deployment zone.

    For the pure hidden sniper thing, there is no better thing in Aleph than the MK 2 Sniper.


    I would prefer the Rudra because I have only used it once.
     
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  8. Kestril

    Kestril Active Member

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    Thank you! Fixed!

    If you do find the right spot, it's devastating. I locked down an entire haris link team with one Dasyu for the first two turns once. Other games, he eats a chain-rifle to the face twice and drops.

    Yeah, Dasyus are very tricky to use because they have got a lot of counters that also deploy in the midfield--namely templates and shock ammo, sometimes both at once in the form of shock mines. But if you do find a good spot, they are well worth the investment and risk.

    Unless Army 7 is lying, the MK 2 proxy doesn't get hidden deployment anymore, only Mimetism(-6) and a camo marker state.

    Still good for a marker camo sniper, don't get me wrong, but hidden sniper is a Dasyu's thing now.

    I do want to try the Rudra, too~ It reminds me of those ghost in the shell robots.
     
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  9. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
    Warcor

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    Dasyus sound great, but in my experience they die too easily due to the amount of Shock out of there. A single mine can completely block you from doing anything, and they're a big investment for that.

    At the same time, I love them and use them heavily. :) My biggest disappointment is that it's so hard to include 2 in list with Asura :D

    Anyway, do the Garuda. Rudra is just a disappointment.
     
  10. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
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    I like the Rudra very much. It is a tough Remote with a nice repeaterbubble around itself. I love to put one into Fireteams.
    He extends the reach of the Fireteam Hacker and stresses opponents out by spotlighting them in ARO if they come to close. There is some good synergy between the Rudra and all the Hackers in my army.
     
  11. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    OMG this is heresy! And how did I miss that?
     
  12. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    Apparently this was a quiet nerf but targeted to the mk2 with the change from n3->n4 and so is not a big but intentional.

    And also is super disappointing.
     
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