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Kaze Tachinu / Batrachotoxin tactic

Discussion in 'Core Set' started by Isidore, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. Isidore

    Isidore New Member

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    Hello.

    I have a question about Musashi Kaze Tachinu, and the synergy with some tactics.
    Kaze Tachinu: "Immediately after inflicting X:4:, you may Displace yourself X spaces".

    If during Musashi activation I play the tactic "Batrachotoxin", and inflict X :4:, are these damages considering inflicted by Musashi ? And Musashi using Kaze Tachinu ?

    I don't see anything about this point on the english part of the forum (I don't read spanish)

    Thanks !
    Isidore
     
  2. jakata

    jakata Active Member

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    It is a good question. On Spanish it says that you substitute the poison tokens for damage tokens, so I really don't know if you are inflicting damage, if that's the case then you will be able to displace, but as you are substituting I will not bet against it.

    Enviado desde mi Moto G (5) mediante Tapatalk
     
  3. Roadrunner7431

    Roadrunner7431 Well-Known Member
    Warcor Aristeia

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    Batrachotoxin is Dart's card (her name is printed on it) I would say that even though you may play it on Mushashi's activation the nature of that card is a delayed effect of Dart's strengths. The words "Kaze Tachinu" in Japanese mean "Ride the Wind" of "Lifted by the Wind" Nothing to do with Poison. I would think that no displacement by Mushashi is permitted in this case.
     
  4. treiral

    treiral Midnight poster

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    For what it's worth, in the spanish forum, @-V- ruled that a Gata in Pain suppressors can't be killed using Batrachotoxin, implying that the :4:tokens from it are still received over just being substituted. From that, we could further speculate that giving any amount of :4: is considered inflicting damage.
    Of course, this is just speculation on my part.

    A different question is "who is inflicting this damage exactly", and I've been wondering on this for months now, since you can inflict this damage in a number of ways. One could say that Batrachotoxin is just :D:damage with an added effect, but you can also deal damage with a different character with Kozmo's Stellar Nucleosynthesis. This is also important to know who gets the frag in these cases.
     
  5. Isidore

    Isidore New Member

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    Thank-you for your answers.
    As Treiral said, the point can be resumed by ""who is inflicting this damage?", when "Batrachotoxin" is played by someone else than Dart.
     
  6. Damiel

    Damiel Domaru sexytorizado :3
    Warcor

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    Reference guide, Damage, first bullet. It's just as you say. For rules purpose, "inflict :4:", "suffer :4:" or "putting :4: tokens" is the same.

    The Batrachotoxin itself. Is a Tactic effect, so no credit for any aristo. Same goes for Stellar Nucleosynthesis. And it's not :D: Damage (so no benefit from Bachmann's Immunized, he's gonna suffer this). Also, no displacements for Musashi.

    Correct for the part that Musashi isn't allowed to displace, but wrong argument (though quite lorewise :3). Someone can imply that Dart is doing :4:, when it's not.

    Hope this helps!

    :3
     
  7. Stompburger

    Stompburger Member

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    I'm not entirely sure about that (though if this is an official ruling on it, let me know). My thinking is that the implied "you" in the instructions for each tactic is not always clear. For an effect like "draw 2 tactics cards" it seems to be the player, but for "gain 3 movement points" it's clearly the active character. Players can't gain movement points, and characters don't have a hand of tactics cards. So if a tactics card says "deal 2 :4:", is it implying "you, the player, deal 2:4:" or "the active character deals 2:4:"? I think an argument could be made for either, because there are examples of each in the other tactics cards.
     
  8. treiral

    treiral Midnight poster

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    First page of the reference guide says (Who does what section) that the (You) in the cards means the Character who performs an action or plays a tactic.
     
  9. Stompburger

    Stompburger Member

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    Well, that makes it sound like the Character is playing the tactic, right? Not the player.

    But then the example they give makes it more confusing:
    "For example, Major Lunah’s Automatic Skill says “Ignore your Target’s Cover.” That means whenever Major Lunah performs an Action with a Target, her player gets to ignore the Target’s Cover."​

    They're saying that when Major Lunah's Automatic Skill allows the player to ignore the target's cover, not Major Lunah. That doesn't seem to clarify it at all.
     
  10. Damiel

    Damiel Domaru sexytorizado :3
    Warcor

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    Reference Guide, Damage, first bullet:

    (underlined by me for resalting reasons)

    So, Batrachotoxin's effects are not initiated by Musashi, and he's not necessary for anything (just any allied activation), so no, it's not Musashi who's dealing the :4:, as Batrachotoxin is not an Action or Automatic Skill of Musashi. The only interaction intended between Tactics and aristos (as far as I have seen throughout the cards) is declaring a Target from the active aristo or the aristo who can use the Tactic (e.g. Solar Flare, the only interaction with Prysm is specify the Target of the Tactic). Same with Valkyrie's Cry (measuring for declaring a Target). And yes, a Tactic can deal :4:.

    :3
     
    treiral likes this.
  11. Stompburger

    Stompburger Member

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    Further evidence that Characters might be the ones who use tactics from the Human Target Scenario rules (emphasis mine):
    But then contradictory evidence from the next paragraph:
    So, based on the first paragraph, it seems like characters can be the ones who "use" tactics. But based on the second paragraph, (some?) tactics are not attributed to a character, and so the counter must be placed on the ground.

    Very confusing. An official ruling would be helpful.
     
  12. Damiel

    Damiel Domaru sexytorizado :3
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    No contradiction, if the Human Target goes to the infirmary during an Enemy's activation (via Action/AutoSkill/Tactic/whatever), you assign the Counter to that Enemy Character; if not, it drops. It's quite clear in Spanish 1.7 version (where it just says "place on the Character tha gets the Frag").

    Again, Tactics can deal damage by themselves, and this damage is not done by the active Character.

    :3
     
  13. treiral

    treiral Midnight poster

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    Yes and no @Damiel, as @Stompburger pointed out, there is a contradiction. The bigger issue is that the contradiction seems to lie from an errata in the english scenario book.
    @Stompburger, in Spanish the next paragraph says:
    Of course, this is just one errata in a sea of them. But I think this one at least can be easily solved this way.
     
  14. Damiel

    Damiel Domaru sexytorizado :3
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    In that cases, the Spanish text prevails (unless official FAQ, which is not the case), that's what I'm stating in my answer (and what Stompburger didn't checked). And an errata is not a contradiction.

    :3
     
  15. Stompburger

    Stompburger Member

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    It looks like then the Spanish version doesn't directly address Tactics. I agree Damiel that your interpretation seems the most sensible, but I don't think the rules (at least the English ones, and what you've quoted of the Spanish ones) are definitive.
     
  16. -V-

    -V- A! Team member
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    It's a nice question for the new FAQs. Thank you!

    :wink: