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Karakuri speculation

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by wuji, Aug 19, 2020.

  1. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Since these seem to be popping up with other units...

    I like the idea of unusual or uncommon weapons on the karakuri, which makes me look at the combi as an underwhelming gun on these things.

    I'd like to see a multi rifle profile to round out their unusual loudouts.
    I'd like to see 360 visor to further accentuate the unapproachable tank theme.

    I almost wanna swap nanopulsers in too.

    But will see what cb does.
     
  2. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Huh, I have never actually thought about how weird it is that they don't have nanopulsers.
     
    wuji likes this.
  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    They need to do something about Total Immunity first.
     
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  4. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean?
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It's an overpowered rule on a unit like a Karakuri.
     
  6. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    Total immunity will transform special ammo into regular ammo. No mention of using BTS as ARM.
     
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  7. dakara

    dakara Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    this would make the ruling pretty easy to understand, I do like it
     
  8. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I guess any immunity is something to look at if we don't consider that a player still pays for it... I mean the immunity afforded to the Sog recently I'm sure welcome. Karakuri for being what they are do lack a proper SWC loadout and are limited to Haris, sure I'm only imagining this, but I know every faction in the game has at least 1 high burst gun fighter to deal with them and or a CC specialist with and answer. My opinion has always been, as long as the cost is paid, it's fair. Optimization is definitely another thing but I've complained more about units that are suboptimal rather than those that are.

    That definitely clears up any concerns anyone might have. Hopefully that's not the only change we see for Karakuri. I hope CB has reason to make a result for them soon, something more ScarJo GitS for those deep cut fans.

    Yep, I'd really like to see the next Karakuri in a sort of segmented kimono where they really look like geisha with segmented faces like Aleph, where the Kimono reveals there weapons compartmentalized into their forms. That'd be pretty dope!
     
  9. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Just curious, what would a Wolf Brigade unit look like in JSA? We've got 2 of the classics, Akira and GitS, sort of got Tank Police, need JinRo...
     
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  10. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    Like a Caledonian mormaer.
     
  11. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    In that case we wont see it I think, cause we already have 2 reasonably heavy HI...
     
  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Well, my concern is that the Karakuri pays for Total Immunity, but doesn't pay for ARM 6, which is the real result under N3 rules. A number of things could change; we know that BTS is no longer restricted to multiples of 3 in N4, for example, and other posters have just suggested that the "Use BTS as ARM" part may not be brought over. Hopefully models with Total Immunity are made vulnerable to nonlethal weaponry again as well.
     
  13. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible its costed correctly for the cost of a Karakuri vs what it does? Looking at similarly costed troops, they are all CC monsters and got Vis mods or pack SWC gear... Maybe Karakuri arent supposed to be ultra deadly or fixable or offer utility to the rest of the army but they're niche is ultra survivability. They serve basically as 40 point road blocks that eat up 3 order a piece on average it seems. Going up against say Ariadna, I'd say it's appropriate... considering one has way more orders to use. They're just really expensive roadblocks. For 18 points you can get 3 strategically placed impetuous smoke throwers with chain rifles. Just food for thought. And pointing this out actually gives me more appreciation for Karakuri. Cant wait to see the the eventual resculpts.
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    If that's the case, then most other things with Total Immunity are *overcosted*. How powerful TI is is variable based on the defensive stats of the model in question, and yet TI has a relatively fixed cost - this is wrongheaded. Like if they gave Kornak Total Immunity for the 4 points or whatever it is he'd be nuts-powerful.
     
  15. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I see what your saying but he doesn't right. As far as your argument for variable effectiveness. People make the same argument for ODD or TO coupled with a good ballistic skill and an SWC weapon vs say the Shikami... The Shikami pays for ODD the same as any other but more effort has to be put in in order to make the Shikami work and it's very table dependent. I would always want every skill to cost the same I would just want sensible design choices by CB to not make something too optimized. That being said BTS is becoming more variable in itself with more BTS weapons and now BTS incremented in 1s instead of 3s. I think it'll all workout in the end.
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's a bit difficult to judge, but I'd say that when comparing to Hollowmen it seems to be between 8 and 12 points, with 9 or 10 being the most likely. I do think Karakuri are paying a bit more than Kendrat, but with Kendrat it's possible that the comparable unit (Morat Renegades) are artificially more expensive than their abilities due to points squish that I've noticed happening with cheap Frenzy units. Equally, it's possible that Karakuri and Sun Tze are paying overprice thanks to being heavy infantry, but Sun2 seem to indicate this is not the case.
    In either case, it's an expensive ability
     
    wuji likes this.
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