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Jumping the gun! A first impressions analysis of Tunguska

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Wyrmnax, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    So... unit by unit...

    Ashcroft Hunting party:
    Nothing we hadn't seen before. Miranda makes for a decent not too expensive gunfighter, but is probably better as irregular as you want to toss her in front of danger. The ABHs pay for that Booty skill that is 60-80% garbage.

    Daktari + Clockmaker
    Standard Doctor + Engineer

    Hecklers
    Somewhat extensive discussion was had on this unit already. Jammer, Shotgun and Red Fury profiles are quite good, KHD is kinda meh. Cybermines are not really all that impressive except in very specific cases.

    Mary Problems
    So...
    KHD + AHD + pitcher + her stats make her a excelent hacker.
    ODD makes her decent in a firefight. BS 11 and a smg means she has a rough time actually killing stuff - particularly stuff that is more than 8" away, but ODD might keep her safe. I never though I would say this, but ODD is bloat on the model...
    Problem is that she costs 30 pts, and ODD does not play well with her marker state. She is a hell of a hacker, and somewhat useful when fighting a army that can't be hacked.

    Puppetactica
    @12 points, the master is the 5th cheapest regular order on the army - behind the 8 pt REMs. That alone would be something, but Counterintelligence make for a very good cheerleader.
    The puppetbots are a very cheap decent haris, but also *very* vulnerable to loosing the master. If you bring them you should expect the enemy to Speculative fire / super jump / super climb / AD to get your master, because it is *very* worth to do so.
    With bots the unit becomes a huge gamble - fairly high risk, but great reward.

    Raoul Spector
    Back as expected, still very decent even if a bit expensive. The link options make the regular a great adition in quite a few places ( point man for securitate or grenzers, escort for Perseus )

    Securitate
    Still expensive, but now really useful. Veteran gives you a solid order base, and they still have access to repeaters in case it is needed. Still a Light Infantary link, so don't expect miracles, but they are decent cheerleaders.

    Interventors
    No change from vanilla. Link with grenzers can give them SSlv2, but it is hella expensive.

    Zondnautica
    I really like the concept, but I think it was done in the wrong place. Bikes on Spaceship living folk is... uh....
    In any case, concet is really good - having your bike follow you around as a g:Synch. Cost is a bit on the expensive side though. Will probably see play more for the fact that it brings smoke than for the rest of the unit.

    Grenzers
    Same thing that existed, linkable and with a extra Biometric Visor profile. That profile is very in line with the unit, but they still suffer from the MI issue - fairly expensive and while they bring a decent kit it is still 1W only. At 25-30 pts with no survivability modifiers I think they are a tad too expensive.

    Kriza Borac
    Same thing we had in vanilla, with Haris and Duo options. Haris adds little to Kriza - they want to move up and be in suppressive on the reactive, and the B bonus is wasted on the active. So yeah, the teams are more for order efficiency and maybe a deflector than to add damage
    However, the unit is still fantastically good at what it was designed to do - shoot faces.

    Hollow Man
    They are very interesting. Low PH gives them a nice discount for HI, but also makes them very vulnerable to templates. 6-2 and super jump makes them very mobile and there are plenty of interesting profiles. All in all looks like a really good unit in the sectorial. Also, don't get them into CC. Even a HVT has a fair chance of taking them down on CC.
    Btw. Super Jump 6 pitcher / missile launcher can make for some ridiculous positions...

    Szalamandra
    Firepower TAG is back at it. With the best possible hacker support, but also few cheap orders to draw from.

    REMs
    Normal Nomad REMs. Pretty decent, but no Buleteers / Rui Shi. They gain a lot from having so much easy hacking on the table though.
    Only changes from normal is the FTP Stempler and forward deploy. Thats a Super Jumping sensor - very good for decamoing stuff that likes standing on rooftops. Being obligatory on his two link options make those options a bit more fragile. The FD bots pay a bit for uncrowding your DZ - very worth it IMO if you have the points.

    Spektrs
    All that you want from a TO camo, with little to no bloat. Still very good, and gained a decent KHD profile - even though TO camo is a bit much on a KHD.

    Perseus
    He is a myrmidon character outside of Aleph. Comes with everything from a myrmidon character - NWI, ODD, smoke, nanopulser, good CC and a non-combi weapon. Has the same issues as a myrmidon - keep him away from mines and flamethrowers, and keep in mind where are the enemy MSVs. All in all, a pretty good unit. Haris with spector is a bit of a bummer as he is a better pointman 90% out of the time, you would only switch against very high BTS targets ( and even then, winning the FtF might be more valuable ). Makes one hell of a pointman for a securitate link that wants to move forward.

    Overall:
    Tunguska feel very on point. It is different, more elite and with no throwaway troops like other Nomad setorials, but it does have the tools to compensate that. It has less midfield presence than normal on Nomads, but at the same time it is much heavier hitting and more durable.

    The only real obvious problem is doing missions that require anti-material CC ability.
     
    #1 Wyrmnax, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  2. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Hollow Men can reform without the REM, they have core themselves!
     
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  3. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    They did not have it when I wrote! Gonna fix that...
     
  4. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    edit - too slow
     
  5. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    Ashcroft Hunting party:
    Meh.

    Mary Problems
    Agreed on all points

    Puppetactica
    Special callout to the minelayer profile. Great opportunity to project a threat by placing it so it appears to be an intruder. Also useful to block out AD.

    Raoul Spector
    AD specialist bully or "Grenzer" that can shoot through White Noise or Objective grabber with Perseus. So many options.

    Securitate
    BS 12 means your LI link is only one point behind units like Brigadas, Wildcats, and Taskmasters. Veteran gives you a stable order base and makes a Kriza LT far more attractive. 0 SWC LT option adds to the shell game

    Interventors
    Still the best Hackers (sorry Mary)

    Zondnautica
    32pts 1 SWC(!) for the Spitfire seems like a steal for a model with that movement, Smoke, and an extra order. BSG could be very disruptive as well. Great compliment to AD Spector.

    Grenzers
    I disagree here. These guys make for potent gunfighters. Missile Launcher seems like a good deal and will be terrifying in a full link. Not sure I would ever run a full Grenzer link though. A couple thrown in with Securitate will be enough.

    Kriza Borac
    Love the Duo even if it might be hard to find the orders to feed them. Being able to run 2 is a reason I would consider TJC over Vanilla.

    Hollow Man
    I haven't really sunk my teeth into these guys yet, but they don't have me as excited as some of the other profiles. Really vulnerable to a lot of mid table threats.

    Szalamandra
    Better in Vanilla due to cheaper orders & better protection, but still solid.

    REMs
    Would rather have seen the Lunokhod get FD, but these all remain solid options.

    Spektrs
    KHD with Cybermines is a decent compromise if you are short on points and/or SWC.

    Perseus
    Great Data Tracker choice. Haris will be good for getting to objectives (Specialist redundancy, Repeater, ODD, Smoke, and great CC abilities). A little light on firepower though.

    Overall:
    Tunguska will be hard for players who haven't mastered hacking. No exclusive units, just profiles. Units seem to bring more to Vanilla than the sectorial in some cases. Will be potent when going first. Will struggle sometimes going second, particularly against Warband heavy lists. Not beginner friendly, but powerful in the hands of someone who can cover the weaknesses and maximize the strengths
     
  6. mothman

    mothman Well-Known Member

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    One interesting thing on the zond naut, once you get off bike you can run around and for 1 order have bot just keep shooting smoke while the pilot shoots targets with spitfire as g:sync do same order but dont need same target, can also be fun to just suicide the two round corner infront of a link, spitfire shoots at link leader and chain rifle puts template over most of the team.

    Also means iirc they share aro so spitfire can shoot to kill attacker while zondmate lays emergency smoke or chain rifle.

    mary- I dont really get the hype around her, if she was Normal or hacking device + with KHD id take her, or if she could link but atm she seems kinda bloated, for anti hackers I could take an interventor for 20 points. She can do the Ryuken thing of getting mid table and going supression fire, but she will probably just get chain rifled to death.

    Hollow man link is potentially powerful, but requires you to know your stuff, fight from higher ground to make for easier clockmaker repairs and also you can keep high enough off ground to avoid chain rifles and mines. Smart use of sensor can help clear camo. They are vulnerable to templates, though iirc it takes about 5 orders of speculative fire to take 1 out and if they dont you have 2 75% chances to fix them with a clockmaker command token. I am also fond of haris and duo on these guys.

    Like most Nomad sectorials its better to just go vanilla but Tunguska has something to offer you if you like more advanced lists and may end up as kings of limited insertion. But as with bakunin lack of MSV kinda rules them out from being a top tier sectorial as they can be easily picked apart by smoke trick on reactive turn.
     
  7. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I agree with the Heckler KHD "meh" opinion :
    - Being KHD make him a specialist, so quite useful for button pushing.
    - He also can cybermask, which is a huge advantage. I's not as good as recamoing but it's a good second best
    - Finaly, I see a lot of potential in cybermine for dealing with big dangereous HI/HI links : go near a corner, place the cybermine in front of them then shoot them with someone else. They no have to choose between free shots in the face or very likely Imm-1 (resulting in free shots next order).
     
  8. perseus

    perseus Angry Clown

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    heckler khd has cybermask
    cybermask , suprise + assault pistol is very dangerous.

    as general, i didnt like tunguska. too much elite. its like john lennon, sting, shakira, Eminem and Guns roses are all on the stage together and in 10 minutes total stage time, they will try to sing songs in order.
     
  9. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

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    I agree the khd/cyber mine combo is great. It's a great fixer, it allows the khd to handle other hackers, and cybermines give them something to do against other hackable targets. The reset or dodge conundrum is excellent too.

    I like Tunguska a lot, I like elite units and smaller lists. Last night the other Perseus messed up @TheDiceAbide 's druze link real bad. Kurage battle report incoming probably this evening.

    One thing to keep in mind when making Tunguska lists is to not get too distracted by the new shiney. Stuff like Tranductor zonds and other cheap models like daktari or baggage bots are also useful, both for orders, and also has chaff to slow down attacks.
     
    TheDiceAbide likes this.
  10. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Not sure why Miranda party is meh it has the kind of late game role and lower cost that Tunguska is missing.

    Heckler KHD is nice because it fits some slots you can easily be missing at the end of a list.
     
  11. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    This is interesting. I'm on the opposite side of this in that I have never understood the reasoning to take an interventor KHD unless the mission specifically called for it, and that's exactly why I'm excited for Mary. She has a role to fill that doesn't overlap with what I'm trying to do with my interventor HD+, which is primarily use it for utility and buffing. If you want anti-hacker abilities, you now have access to a model that is basically as good as the interventor KHD is (via access to lightning) that now also can hammer REM/TAG/HI if you want. On top of that gets climbing plus and ODD and Forward 1 so she can actually run around the board.

    I think she's definitely not an auto-include for me since I prefer utility (HD+) and will take that over her if I have to choose one of the two, but if the mission calls for her she's going to be a nightmare.
     
    #11 Tom McTrouble, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  12. mothman

    mothman Well-Known Member

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    I prefer her in vanilla, she has protection of morans and zeros midfield + morlocks to slow down enemy attacks. For me Tunguska is kinda weak if it doesnt get first turn.
     
  13. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Yea, I mean it's a weakness of the whole sectorial. However, I would also argue that Nomads come from such a history of A+ mid-field control that as soon as we see we don't have it, it scares us more than it should.

    I also don't think the sectorial is going to be as fragile going second as some think it will be. I wish we had some cheap skirmish units, but even still a core link with a Feurbach or MSR is gonna be tough to dislodge. We have access to DZ crazy koalas for impersonators and infiltrators. If we so choose, there is a link team of 2 wound remotes that don't cost us orders when they die. The heckler can pop off a jammer shot to isolate link leaders. TJC is also crazy resilient to LoL with our veteran mine troops.

    I admit, you are correct in that it's never going to be as good as morans plus zeroes plus jaguars plus morlocks, but no faction other than vanilla nomads even comes close to that level of mid-field control and they still manage to do fine.
     
  14. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    They have a lot of things but it is hard to fit all or much of it in to a list at once. There are going to be sacrifices and by far it will be the most offensive least defensive of Nomads.
     
  15. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    O for sure. It's going to be a way different game. I'm just saying that we should stop thinking of going second as Auto-Concede for TJC. I would argue that if we get second turn and we didn't take significant damage, the crack back could potentially be much worse than if we had gone first anyway.
     
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  16. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    It really depends on how you build it, since I like a Grenzer link I would do much better in defense.
     
  17. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Zondnautica:
    Everyone is hyped about the spitfire but I think my favorite profile is the boarding shotgun. You have speed + smoke and can't use cover. So just drive full speed into short range and angle to hit multiple targets with your shotgun. It also makes a good room clearer when unmounted since you can fire both a shotgun and chainrifle at once. Thats some serious firepower all for only 24 points.

    As for the spitfire profile, I think I'd rather take a Tsyklon which can be buffed by hacking, can use cover, and be repaired by a clockmaker.
     
    #17 Death, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
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  18. mothman

    mothman Well-Known Member

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    its not auto concede its more you will have to be very careful I think with your deployment and prep for your first turn to be attacking into a very entrenched position, which the hollow men can do very well. Some missions are going to be extremely tough, like the one where you have to take the crates from middle and run back to your deployment zone, as fighitng against the standard 2-3 camo midfield specialists fill be kinda tricky. Im half tempted to deploy the puppets in LoS of the objective and forward observe to target them and use missile launchers to hit them once they have ran back to their board side.

    if we can get first turn our best move is get puppets midfield for burst 2 shotgun AROs or wip 14 flash pulses and rambo the hollow men and borac to do as much first turn damage, then rely on clockmaker so we can win through attrition.

    For me
    securitate-grenzer ML-repeater link is best defence link
    grenzer haris- I think works best with a missile launcher as an ARO haris that can last min try to drag an interventor midfield for objectives
    securitate-perseus link- offensive non hackable link (great vs ariadna and other non MSV links)
    hollow men link- precise aggression+ mobility link take anywhere from duo to full core dependant on meta and goal
     
  19. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Tunguska are going to really shine in Limited Insertion. They have so many good multi-purpose units, and some really efficient links. I love this end of the bag-of-tricks style of list/play. Peak Nomad indeed.
     
  20. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Unless it's one of the missions that's restricted to CC damage, linked MLs and Feuerbachs will do the job fine.
     
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