So these guys have been previewed: The sculpts are being discussed in other threads. What I want to see here, is how you plan on running these beauties until RTF gets dropped on us. That means vanilla list discussion! Are you taking one? Three? Three plus Tarik? How will you support them? We can talk about a generic all-comers list, or plans you have for a specific mission in any of your upcoming Infinity-Operations. I've thrown up a few of my lists to kick things off, so feel free to post your own, or critique these. Frontline ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 1 SALADIN Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 36) KASYM BEG Chain Rifle, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 16) TARIK MANSURI Spitfire, Nanopulser, Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 55) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32) KHAWARIJ Rifle + Light Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 27) KHAWARIJ Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 30) HAKIM Submachine Gun, Chain-colt + 1 Nasmat A2 / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) NASMAT A2 Electric Pulse. (0 | 4) FASID HMG + (Smoke and Normal) Light Grenade Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 53) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army This is me toying around with LI and getting a few models in that I haven't used in a long time. I'm not super confident on its competitiveness, but it will look badass on the table. The name on this next one speaks for itself: Another LI With Momma Mags ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 1 SALADIN Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 36) MAGHARIBA MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 78) MAGHARIBA PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. () NAJJARUN Engineer Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32) KHAWARIJ Rifle + Light Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 27) KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Submachine Guns, Chest Mine / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 17) BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) HAKIM Submachine Gun, Chain-colt + 1 Nasmat A2 / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) NASMAT A2 Electric Pulse. (0 | 4) HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army No particular mission I'm thinking of running this next one in, but I think it could handle quite a few missions. (Maybe with minor tweaks). The key (imo) is all the smoke I can use to hide the jumpers as they position to ruin someone's day. Oh, and All the Fatality L2. Tarik as Lt. with CoC to back him up is a lot of fun, and I haven't done it in a long time, The two things I feel missing are Khawarij with Grenades to lob once they're in a nice spot, and a BSG to really bring the hurt from a flank. Smoke Jumpers ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 1 TARIK MANSURI Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser, Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 55) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32) KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Submachine Guns, Chest Mine / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 17) FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) GROUP 2 2 4 4 FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 6 SWC | 296 Points Open in Infinity Army In a couple of the lists I'm running a Krakot, because they're good and I seem to ALWAYS roll up super-jump. Seriously. I've done it in my last 12-ish games. Well? What do we think, Brothers and Sisters of Allah?
Do we think that we'll get these new profiles before RTF? Because that will dramatically change what I use.
Traditionally we get profiles for new minis at about the same time models land in stores, usually the 25th or before.
I am %90 sure we will still get more profiles. We are missing a handfull to properly round out the Sectorial. I REALLY don't want a Light Infantry Limited Insertion army...it will NOT work. HI have the armor and durability even if they are 1 wound where LI do not. I think RTF will have a strong LI game, but I think they need to be a two combat group force with their LI masses. I am thinking we will see a Zhayedan and Khawariji point reduction or rebalance of rules to lower their costs as of now they are on the edge of being too expensive for their survivability.
You have a pont there, but then again DBS are a sectorial with no HI. And rather limited choice of anything they happen to have.
DBS does work extremely well though, and has a tightly knit theme. If they do the same with RTF, but give it something really new, I could see potential success. To really tie everything together, we need lower costed attackers or heavier armor. ^This. I already feel like a lot of the profiles have crossed the edge of acceptable cost. Inexpensive HI could be a cool concept, but I'm unsure of balancing issues. I love the Haqq heavies, and I'm always wanting to play them more, but the Light Infantry are just buttery. Maybe a new linkable combat remote that can keep up with super-jumping Khawarij? Who knows if the red-turbans will even link? Not me!
I love the models but I just dont see myself ever bringing more then one. They are just so glass cannon, and I always wish I had something else instead.
I dont know who from here has seen my post on another thread, but i think giving khawarij NWI would make them perfect. Bioimmunity and NWI would help so much with survivability without making them too strong. Still arm 1, still dont have cover when jumping, no visual mods, so i think it would be fair for their cost.
I think the Smoke Jumpers list above does a good job of downplaying their vulnerability. They do have low ARM and no defensive mods, but they also have BS13 B4 Spitfires with FAT2. They can hit very, very hard and four profiles like that are hard to stop. They aren't fire and forget like the Ghazi, but they're also not quite as fragile as we sometimes think. If one dies, two more take its place. The LI lists worry me more as they just don't have the bodies or toughness to keep up the order count and fuel their specialists. I love the idea of a Khawarij hammer to the Maghariba anvil, but the lack of smoke or specialist support scares me a bit.
Are we ready to admit that Infinity profile design went through enough power creep that grafting NWI at no extra cost onto a Bioimmune unit with Doc+ support isn't that outrageous at this point? Granted, most people do think that currently there's no way in hell Khawarijis justify their current points, and that some rules/stats cost too much. Spoiler In fact, I only know one guy who runs a non-Tarik Khawariji, obviously Spitfire profile, and that is because of terrain he plays with - Tarik just cannot fit through second store windows of those buildings. He also thinks that Tarik is too expensive anyway, so there's that.
I wont be buying these models if there are no profile changes, regardless of how nice they look - and they look great. Thankfully, some changes are coming...
I doubt there'll be any changes to Khawarij profile. And they're definitely not getting NWI, not without a big cost increase. Despite that, I can see an offensive link of three Khawarijs being extremely viable, especially with those new profiles.
^This. 100% I love them because of super-jump and I have fun running them across the table. Do I think they're an optimal choice in a faction full of great choices? No. While I would love to see NWI, I would be completely astonished if they actually got buffed outside of getting the two new weapon profiles. And they can't really justify a huge points increase. I actually do run 1 or two in a lot of games. And I also find Tarik to be too expensive. I think hes good, don't get me wrong. But a large part of his points cost gets paid for (in my games) by being a bullet magnet. Plus his size can cause some problems, but that was more of an issue when I was learning the game. The problem with power creep is that units inevitably get left behind. As previously mentioned, our Khawarij are on the weak side, so I don't think this is an outrageous suggestion at all. Hell, they're basically getting a CC and poison tax for what? I've got them in CC a few times and it really doesn't make much of a difference. They really would rather be shooting things. So I don't really see this as grafting on something at no extra cost, but barely getting what you pay for. It would also add to the elite super-soldier vibe that we don't actually portray very well. And above all, Haqqislam should be the best faction, with the best units. Because we have the best models, lore/fluff, and players. Can you say it with me? Goooooooooooooo Haqqislam!!!!!!!
