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JSA - Premature Tactical Assessment

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Teslarod, Mar 12, 2018.

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  1. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    With the new JSA about to get released, we went ahead and tested the new toys which already have Profiles. Myself taking SAA for a spin vs NuJSA.

    Mission was nothing out of the ordinary, just good ol' Supplies.
    He went with a fairly classic list around Shinobu , Yojimbo and a Rui Shi with a double ML Keisotsu Link+Yurika&Kempetai, a couple cheap Drones, a Ryouken ODD Minelayer, the Kuroshi Rider and rounded up by a Ninja KHD.
    Long story short JSA struggled to pierce through a few Mines, loads of cheap chaff as well 3 Fugazi with Sniffers + Regular Sensor. The Tik was pretty much unstoppable after gunning down both CC characters while hanging from a wall.
    Dice certainly played their role this game, still I've rarely felt so much ahead. It might just have been a particularily bad matchup, but what I put on the table is just a all purpose list, easy to recreate with Ariadna and Haqq.

    This much data is far from evidence, however I'm already presuming there are a number of new options that should find their way into lists to avoid certain problems. Since I've been picking up JSA myself this has been bothering me and I've been looking for solutions.

    Hardly a model in the game is as vulnerable to Mines and DTWs as Ninjas/Saito/Oniwaban/Shinobu. While that has always been the case, there are a bunch of new Support troops to take care of this problem. Having our Infiltrators clear Mines or Warbands themselves is always risky. Countering Camouflague threats in general is another weakpoint for JSA. Part of that is the classic 16 points Sensorbot being disregarded in favour of the shiny toy that is the Rui Shi.
    The new MSV2 MMR Kempetai solves that problem nicely, discovering on a base of 17s thanks to the 5 man bonus makes him a diamond in the rough despite his rather hefty cost and lack of CoC for the Profile.
    Great against Mines, built in Shock against Dogged/NWI Infiltrators or Warbands and able to outrange or underrange every common weapon for these targets.
    With a full Link behind he is still only barely catching up to a Assisted Fire Rui Shi in terms of Firepower, but this Profile is important and should be expected to see a lot of use. Being unhackable, not reliant on a Hacking Program, able to hide Prone, 6th Sense L1(2 with Link) and better Discover is what sets them apart.

    The Ryouken seems to be well liked so far. Mostly for the same reason the Raiden saw play, it's just a fairly inexpensive value package. At least that is true for the HRL. The Forward Deployment L2 + ODD Profile closes a very important gap. It's an excellent gunner compared to our other midfield options. BS 12, X-Visor, B3 AP/Shock/Breaker and Mines to combine with is an entirely different threat. That's a lot of punch with 0 Rangebands up to 24". The X-Visor + ODD also allows for respectable Discover chances on a base of 13 (remember that Discover+Discover is a thing if the target is a Mine or decides to bank on you failing your roll).

    We don't know what exactly is happening to Domaru and Tanko or how their Special Fireteams are going to look like. But lets make an educated guess and assume the upcoming Specialist is (hopefully) not a Hacker and the 2 Domaru+3 Tanko Fireteam stays. As far as the Tanko Dossier is concerned, the days of defensive Missile Launcher and Blitzens are gone in favour of LSG and SMG. The good old Contender for ARO duty is pretty much the only thing staying.
    So what we'll have at hand is a pretty much exclusively aggressive HI doorkicker Fireteam without a +3 Rangeband beyond 24". Domaru are also missing E/M Grenades on their Dossier, while Neko still has them. They'll require support in terms of Long Range Firepower or Smoke. With the Keisotsu Sniper and Haramaki ML gone, as well as the Core slot taken by the HI Link that makes things difficult. With our Smoke also exclusively available on 3 named Characters I'm concerned for this option.
    I'm somewhat concerned the Keisotsu Link will turn out to be a superior choice for Fireteam Core as it can support a variety of other troops a lot better than the rest of JSA can do for the HI Core.

    Here is some good news for Domaru and Tanko, all their other Fireteam otpions look solid.
    Haris with a Daiyokai synergizes well with our TO Camo options. One isn't afraid of Hacking and has MODs, while the other one can tank chipdamage and is a solid gunner with Shock at medium Range.

    Domaru+Karakuri Haris also seems nice, not sure I like it over the Daiyokai Haris though, Stealth, a B4 weapon and PH14 seem to beat Total Immunity and the Karakuri's other advantages in my book.

    The Mushashi + Tanko Haris seems to clock in at 70-80 points for 6 wounds, seems solid through sheer value.

    A Domaru (or Neko) joining a Keisotsu Fireteam will probably turn out similar to what Highlander Greys do in CHA. A Capable HI and a Kempetai with 3 Keisotsu caddies is fairly inexpensive and allows some Link hopping with more Kempetai, Domaru and Keisotsu in the back.

    With Smoke and weapons beyond 24" even scarcer than before, the Oyoroi with new and improved AP HMG just might see a lot of use (I'd be much surprised if the change would go further than adding 4 points on top). As the only model in JSA army that has proper BS and a long range option I'll be happy to run one quite often (FAT1 for TAGs has already proven very noticeable).

    Some random thoughts:
    - The unrevealed Profiles and changes are gonna be interesting.
    Domaru, Tanko, JSA Rui Shi (I really hope he doesn't lose the Spitfire and gets an optional Multi MMR or something), Yurika Oda's "interesting new Lt Profile" as well as any stuff I didn't expect.
    - The Husong Yaokong with Assisted Fire is going to see some increased use as the 3rd best long range troop.

    The initial hype has somewhat worn off, but I'm optimistic this will turn out great. What do you guys think?
     
    #1 Teslarod, Mar 12, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  2. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    I frankly will wait until I see the full roster, you mentioned some potential glaring holes, but those could be fixed by things we don't know about yet, or profiles not actually missing that people assume might be missing based on artwork dossiers.

    I am a bit confused by your battle report...it almost seemed like your opponent was using a standard current JSA list with only 2 "new" options which basically boil down to "almost Raiden" and "Almost Asuka".....what where you hoping to gain from this "experiment"? Why not give the truly new profiles like the giant Samurai, the ODD Unit 9, the new Oniwaban Profile or stuff like that a try instead? I'm pretty sure those would have given more of an insight into what the new JSA could be than what seems to be almost an "old list"...

    That aside it's interesting to read anyways....you seem to heavily enjoy placing mines everywhere, which might indeed make it tough for JSA, I personally don't experience this kind of meta much as 2 mines seems to be about the max my enemy will place with minelayer, and those tend to be easy enough to deal with, so maybe JSA will fare much better in my area.

    I have been mostly away from JSA for a while now playing ISS and Vanilla instead, so returning and re-learning how to deal with the lack of options to deal with certain situations, and how to use our new tricks will surely be interesting for me ^^
     
  3. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Guess I should have gotten at the changes that list had to face a bit more in detail. The Ryouken was indeed the ODD, the Kuroshi Rider was in there because on paper Supplies is one of the best missions to have an 8-6 unhackable Specialist around.
    She did indeed carry one of the boxes back into her DZ with a ridiculous 2 Regular Orders spent on Movement (Impetuous + Lt to get to the box, Regular ones spent to get back into Total Cover).

    As mentioned this is a premature evaluation, a first glance how stuff is turning out. In all fairness the Daiyokai isn't available for proper testing right now without updated Domaru around.
    The JSA Player did however lament how much he will muss the Keisotsu MSR as an Active Turn weapon. He also loves the old Domaru + Haramaki Link to bits. 2 Options I'm also sad to see gone with 99% certainty.
    CB has some screwups on Dossiers from time to time. Still should be fair to say they are mostly accurate, so that's what I'm going with till a potential Release at Adepticon.

    As a sidenote, "almost Asuka" is a much different troop than the SMG Oniwaban in my book.
    This was my list btw
    [​IMG] Shock Army of Acontecimento──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] TIKBALANG HMG, Heavy Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / AP CCW. (2 | 85)[​IMG]
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    [​IMG] BAGH-MARI HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26)
    [​IMG] REGULAR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] REGULAR (Sapper) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 22)
    [​IMG] REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    [​IMG] REGULAR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] NAGA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #3 Teslarod, Mar 13, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  4. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Pffff @Teslarod you wen't easy mode with ASA :P Try to play the game again with MO :D
     
  5. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    I was refering to Kuroshi Rider with the "Almost Asuka" part :-P I didn't know your opponent actually benefited from her being a specialist, that's nice !
     
  6. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    MO must live with it so JSA should be fine too ;P
     
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  7. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    The Mission is always the most important thing about a list. Although the best lists tend to cover a variety of things there is always something that screws with an otherwise perfect concept.
    My list would be garbage for Highly Classified for instance.

    MO gets BS12 TO Snipers, AD Spitfires and BS17 HMGs. Compared to that JSA is very far behind in terms of fighting from their own DZ.
    That is a problem literally no other Faction or Sectorial even has to think about.
    Potentially a very big downside that has to be taken into account during listbuilding.
     
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  8. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    My main question about JSA is whether their lack of long-range dominance and lack of smoke can allow them to be competitive. Virtually every army that focuses on close-range combat also has very stable, reliable, accessible smoke choices. JSA doesn't have that... With their limited smoke access, even including two sources of smoke is a very significant point expenditure.

    So the assumption is that they'd be able to dominate long range bans, but that's also an issue. To some degree, we're losing Haramaki missile, which was the preferred table coverage unit. Keisotsu remain as a cheap option, but JSA will be SWC hungry now that there are more Haris Teams, Ryuken-9 minelayer, fresh SWC choices like the Kempetai Marksman. This means that Keisotsu heavy weapons will compete with these other strong choices.

    Can JSA's short-range dominance really succeed with limited smoke and long-range firepower?

    We still need to see the full Domaru and Tanko changes, because these are going to be very important for determining that. I know Tanko are getting at least one new weapon option that Haramaki didn't have, which could help with this, but still has its own in-built limitations.
     
  9. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Solely talking about Smoke, Yojombo is the only one who covers the DZ. While the Saito/Yojimbo can cover from the midfield they often don't want to reveal for that.

    Something I've seen no JSA player ever do is spending an Order to cancel Yojimbo's Impetuous Move, or to Dismount during the first Short Skill to retain Total Cover. No idea why, he isn't quite what I'd call cheap. Running him into Sniper AROs and the likes of it is questionable even if things are often slightly in his favour 1 die vs 1 die.
    We might just be better off abandoning his Bike in exchange for Cautions Move, Prone and better access to LOF blocking scenery, to have a reliable source of Smoke as well as DZ guard for multiple turns.

    When I decided on JSA last year this is what I wanted to run:
    [​IMG] Japanese Sectorial Army──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SHINOBU Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (1 | 47)
    [​IMG] KEMPEI (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 17)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 14)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] SAITO TOGAN Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
    Funny enough it had all 3 Smoke chuggers. Keeps the fragile CC Specialists alive vs DTWs. Relies mostly on Koalas and Discover+Shoot to clear Mines properly though.
    NuJSA should be able to play that list without any changes. Saito might be able to become a Specialist, so the Ninja could be a MMR Kempetai instead.

    Full disclosure this started out as an anti Tohaa list (nothing quite feels as nice as smoking a Triad, critting a Sukeul and Kotail with Mate and beating a Makaul at his own game), although I've had more trouble with Vanilla Haqq than Artichockes. JSA HI (disregarding Karakuri) always had the problem to be be about CC first, shooting second and not much else in a game where the prefered course of action would be the other way around and Specilist are a staple win conditions.
    On the other hand they also had the cheapest Linetroops any army with proper tech could ask for and more versatile options to fuel with them (TO, Infiltrators, Rui Shi Oyoroi, Bikes). The Japanese Sectorial Army felt very versatile and techy. MSV2 Remote, Non Impetuous Smoke, Bikes (MOV8-6 are the good ones), Hacking buffs&Marker State KHDs, Koalas, loads of TO - in exchange for access to AD troops they had everything you could ask for. Limited availability didn't really appear as such if you took advantage of access to the full package.
    The Japanese Seccesionist Army retains those tools and expands on them with the Kuroshi Rider as well as the new Kempetai and Unit-9 Profiles. Domaru and Tanko are now everywhere instead of exclusively found as part of an all-in Core Link. Karakuri and Musashi get a free ride on the same train.
    Shikami are the only troops left in a questionable place, would have been great to have them in Links instead of getting that Domaru Speciaist.

    All in all the loss of a Keisotsu MSR and Haramaki ML/Blitzen should be an excellent trade. My concern is still that there might be some obvious winners when the dust settles. That seems unlikely for now, but I'm still far away from ruling it out.
     
    #9 Teslarod, Mar 14, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  10. Dude

    Dude Master in training
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    Just gonna chime in and say I appreciate the name of this thread :)
     
  11. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    I'm really not convinced that tankos will lose the ML or will otherwise not have any long range weapons unless both domaru and tankos get huge redesigns. Given domaru have resculpted models I doubt they will change from short range CC heavy infantry.

    So for tankos to lose blitzen and ml for smgs makes them sounds like short range CC heavy infantry...
     
  12. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    A dossier doesn't set in stone the gear configuration for a unit. The Oniwaban dossier had grenades until recently yet such option was never available in the profile. In the same sense, and more recently, Kriza Borak showing a missile launcher, probably a remnant indicating the unit got Full Auto lvl 2 in the last part of testings when design was already done.

    So right now Tanko could have Blitzen and/or ML options or maybe just smoke grenades or maybe none of those. However should they keep the Haramaki's ML, I doubt they will enjoy the 0,5 SWC discount this time.
     
  13. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Oh my, if you want to bank on CB screwing up a Dossier I'm taking bets. I'm not hellbent on this turning out either way, but I do think there was a lot of overlap with the Magister Link that needed addressing.

    There are SMGs and LSGs on the Dossier and something will have to go for that. Tanko are also AVA3 so I'd be sceptical about a wide variety of Profiles.
    My resident JSA enthusiast is already inconsolable about the tragic death of his Keisotsu MSR.
    Some might want to start coping prematurely, in the spirit of this thread's title, if they'll miss the Haramaki Missiles. CB said there would be anger, could well be possible some of that is on our side of things.

    Thanks man, was an attempt to keep the salty YJ players happy.
    Gonna look forward to your updated Guide.
     
  14. Dude

    Dude Master in training
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    RE: Dossier art
    Remember that the issue isn't whether they're accurate, but rather comprehensive. Any given unit usually has more weapon options than will fit in a dossier page.
     
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  15. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    I'll take that bet! The APHMG Oyoroi will be bitter sweet if I lose the 2x ML link that I had combo'd up with her :( :(

    On other topics, I fully agree that JSA's reliance on close combat and a lack of effective long range weapons or even multiple smoke sources makes games a careful balancing act. If your opponent can reliably stay out of CC, many JSA lists lose much of their teeth.

    I can see the kempeitei getting some use, but again, without plenty of smoke to leverage, I think the static position and relatively average shooting characteristics will leave many players using them in unfavourable situations more than they might like.

    I think people might be looking to the mixed HI links to be the saviour, but a reasonably stiff ARO presence will stop those in their tracks due to again, the lack of smoke and fairly average gunfighting.

    Ironically (based on the recent crying about Yu jing split). I started with JSA and have always found the sectorial challenging and have since transitioned into vanilla yu jing (with no JSA units) to field more competitive lists
     
  16. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Ironically I find JSA to play from ahead against several of the Factions I'd consider current powerhouses.
    Tohaa, ISS and Vanilla Aleph especially.
    All 3 of them have no fearsome ARO roadblock that would stop JSA in it's tracks and rely on aggressive troops very vulnerable to JSA's CC Speciaists.
     
  17. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Tohaa have serviceable ARO options facing JSA, including a BS13 mimetism ML (even the HMG with a mate will do fine here) and and MSV2 B2 sniper. The sniper alone will give many JSA players headaches about how to approach.

    ISS kuang shi can really ruin a JSA day, the new SMG profiles for nuJSA have really improved this match up however.

    Can't say I see your logic on ISS or aleph to be perfectly honest. Anything that has high CC on anything worth stabbing makes CC an incredibly risky investment of orders, so I don't see the strengths JSA bring against these factions?
     
  18. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    It's not quite as simple for the CC math. Anything with MA3 is still greatly favored against anything with CC below that. In Vanilla Aleph, for example, the only piece that really scares me to CC is Ajax (because of NBW). Shinobu/Oniwaban are still pretty favored against Achilles with Surprise Attack. The only pieces I find really really annoying are Myrmidons because they make me wish JSA had a 5 point CC warband (giff Japanese monks plz Corvo Bello)

    Tohaa isn't that annoying, honestly. The Gao-Rael isn't a fantastic shot and if he's got B2 and a good place to shoot from that means my opponent has two more units wasting space nearby who will be easier to kill. That's something I'm either going to deal with with a linked missile launcher (Haramaki/Keisotsu) or by just killing the other two dudes in the link. The Sukeul is much more annoying to deal with, but doesn't have MSV which means I can just push a marker at him (he's only WIP13).

    I would agree ISS is not an easy matchup. Kuang Shi in the DZ, the madtraps, and the high number of sensors/sniffers make our TO infiltrators really hard to play, and ISS has pieces that beat JSA in a firefight (the Hsien and Su Jian are scary, Sun Tze HI is super annoying.) We'll see how any other changes to JSA profiles affect this though.
     
    #18 meikyoushisui, Mar 15, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  19. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Always talking about tournament formats where currently hardly anyone prepares for running into JSA.
    Sensor is criminally underused, even ISS who has more Sensor options than anyone else, hardly every runs a proper Sniffer sweep that would actually catch something besides getting lucky. That is if they even run a Sensor, Zhanying are farily terrible, the Crane Sensor often overlooked in favour of the Spitfire or another Core Link and the REM is pretty much always 3 more Kuang Shi instead.

    Even a Keisotsu HMG handily beats the Gao Rael and Smoke works just fine against an exposed Sukeul. Don't think I need to spell out how Saito and Shinobu fare against a Rasail or Triad in the midfield. One Smoke, Cautious Move or Move+Move into the back arc, ZOC Idle... getting into CC without eating a HFT is easy and from there you can expect to get the whole Triad.
    If all that fails, Makaul are a weakpoint for Tohaa against JSA. Give a Makaul an ARO he wants to use on Smoke and then simply don't contest him. Voilà no more Gao Rael/Sukeul Problems from that angle, as well as possibly a free path for a TO killer into CC.
    In a pinch even Saito and Shinobu's Combi are more than capable to either kill the Makaul from outside HFT range or to have him Drop the Smoke that kills his entire Link. Spec firing Smoke is a last resort after everything else has failed. On any proper table the Gao Rael can't cover everything. Yojimbo or just a normal Ninja, something gets through.
    I almost want to say it's too easy with JSA.... coming from MO where it was a pain in the ass to deal with the same situation over and over again without Smoke and MA4 Mono/EXPCCWs.

    For ISS same thing, really. You have TO, you get to pick your reveal. ISS often goes for either a Sujian or a Wu Ming Link, neither of which can do anything against Smoke+CC. Their ARO game is pretty much their biggest weakness. The Bao Sniper Link is terrible and leaving a Hsien out to ARO is something I'd call questionable. An Assisted Fire Rui Shi does pretty well against the entire Sectorial.
    In theory ISS have more Sensor than anyone else, but the Crane is often

    As for Aleph they often focus on capable, hard to remove troops (Multiwound/NWI/ODD) with ridiculous value. Somethin your CC troops don't care much about and your Rui Shi gets a good matchup against. Achilles might be a minor headache as usual, still manageable.
    SP no idea never played against them with old JSA. NuJSA should look very good with a Core Linked Shock MMR+Rui Shi as well as CC troops able to abuse defensively used Zero-V Smoke.

    JSA's strength in general is circumventing resilience by countering or bypassing with Overkill in shape of high Crit Mono/EXP/EM CCWs.
    I'd be utterly terryfied to run my usual JSA lineup into lets say CHA or USA (which is hillarious because I consider USA close to the bottom of the current Meta). Probably would need to build the second list to face that matchup.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  20. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Damn dude, if youryo getting surprise attack on Achilles on the reg then you are a much better player than I am.

    Best case scenario you're looking at 1x order for smoke, 1x recamo, 1x move to within 4" and 1x move into cc and attack. 4 orders, assuming you're within 6" of him in ideal cover to approach. So let's say 5 orders. That's still got a 20% to flub, not to mention the 25% to flub the infiltrate.

    More likely you're using zoc shenanigans, in which case Achilles is statistically slightly more favoured to put you down. Not something I'd say is "hardly worrying, maybe slightly annoying"

    BS 12 is on par with basically everything JSA can bring. Often outranges what JSA brings and can symbio your first attempt. So after spending half your first turn killing the 2 wound sniper, id say the sniper has done its job.
     
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