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JSA and their relative difficulty

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by grampyseer, May 19, 2018.

  1. grampyseer

    grampyseer User of the "ignore" button
    Warcor

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    Hi All, I'm interested in your opinions. I started playing JSA back in the N2 days and did well with them. When N3 dawned, I felt them becoming harder and harder to use. In particular, I found that their lack of long range ability can be a bit of a trap, especially on more open tables.

    Now, post uprising, it seems that their ability to strike out at range has been improved. The cheap Tanko haris, stronger O-Yori, Daiyokai, and even Mushashi flash pulsing twice on wip 15 all seem to point to a stronger mid-long range game then I've previously experienced.

    So, my question is "are JSA a tougher nut to crack than they used to be, or have they just become better rounded?"

    Thanks all,
     
  2. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    With a shiny new release cycle hitting the shelves there are a lot of new people around not used to CC.
    Those will have some harsh lessons to learn.

    Personally I think the new options are full of traps and suboptimal choices, especially the various Haris options and the option to cram a Domaru in every Fireteam regardless of any consideration for a desire to be anywhere close to 8" from an opponent.

    Overall the army undeniably got better by the update, but on the contrary the necessary Skillevel to make them work properly seems more demanding.
     
  3. Dude

    Dude Master in training

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    N3's CC rules made Ninjas/Oniwabans much more versatile in CC. Do you remember the significant risks from the old martial arts rules? If you didn't optimize the CC skills and weapon against a particularly vulnerable target, it was hard to justify any CC order. N3's focus on winning FtF rolls made every CC specialist a champion over any basic chump. N3 gave us our true flavor.

    JSA's ranged capabilities have been broadly expanded in the medium (24") range, starting with the Domaru spitfire and continuing with Kempeitai special weapons and the Daiyokai. But the longest range weapons were quietly nerfed. It took some work adapting to Keisotsus with full SWC heavy weapons, but just as I was falling in love with the Keisotsu sniper he gets Infinity War'd into oblivion.

    I don't feel like we've particularly lost much potential for high burst long range firepower. But I do feel more challenged in this specific area of gameplay. Unfortunately, it's far too easy for tables to leave long, wide firelanes for powerful overwatch troops to lock down our DZ. This is where JSA becomes a hard nut to crack. Otherwise I think they're much better rounded.
     
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  4. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    JSA does a lot more now than they used to. Think about some of the niches that weren't filled but are now.

    The Daiyokai allows you to play "shooty JSA" without commiting to a Karakuri link or O-Yoroi. At BS13 and ARM5, it's an excellent choice. Additionally, the two new Kempeitai variants and the ability to link 2 Kempeitai with Keisotsu gives you much more firepower in a very cheap link.

    JSA used to have strong limitations from its lack of fireteam options. Post-Uprising, this is no longer the case. I think the Domaru Spitfire is a clear winner here -- before, it was a huge investment to take in the DoMaki link (because you were already taking at least one missile), but now, you can drop it in with Keisotsu and Kempeitai for BS15 ARM3 2W B5 Spitfire games. The double Kempei core will probably get more mileage though, since you can get a 5 man Shock Marksman Rifle and still have the Boarding Shotgun to cover the corners (and for CoC).

    Also think about how our Haris options have changed. Pre-Uprising, there was Karakuri. That was it. Now, we also have the Domaru Haris (which can take a Daiyokai), we can include a Domaru with the Karakuri, and we have the Musashi Haris.

    I don't want to say all of the major fireteam changes are the only big buffs to JSA, but they are really indicative of JSA being opened up to a lot more playstyles.

    Additionally, its hard to find any category where JSA is worse now than before. Think about the quick rundown of things that actually got worse:

    1) Aragoto got a KHD. That's an 8-6 KHD for 4 points less than the ninja, but still with a combi+LSG, and it's a 0SWC specialist Aragoto. Additionally, Kuro Bike is expensive but very differentiated from Asuka with the addition of Specialist Op and V:Dogged. 8-6 unhackable specialist.

    2) Kempeitai: Two useless profiles dropped for a fantastic profile (SMMR) and a decent one (Spitfire.)

    3) Keisotsu: LGL that no one took is gone, MSR dropped is a slight nerf.

    4) Ryuken Unit-9: The SMG is borderline broken. This is a stupidly good unit. And no one was taking a Raiden besides the HRL, like at all.

    5) Domaru: I think the net is even. They're a point more, but they all have dual wield and E/M now (except DA/Shock guy). FO profile is a huge buff and makes the core much more playable.

    6) Tanko: MA nerfed but all of their CC weapons got buffed? And there's profiles people take besides the missile and blitzen/contender. It's a net nerf to the unit IMO, especially their AVA, but the Missile is a point cheaper, and their BS is the same.

    7) OYoroi: Got an AP HMG so it can actually gunfight with other TAGs now.

    8) Shikami Duo: No longer costs SWC.

    9) Ninja: We FO now boys

    10) Oniwaban: SMG profile is downright amazing.

    11) Daiyokai Dengekitai: Didn't even exist before.

    The only things that are worse in the new JSA are the Rui Shi and Husong, as well as the Keisotsu. Literally everything else stayed about the same or got significantly better.
     
  5. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Compared to N2, JSA is much easier to use. At least for someone who has played them since N2.

    For the new players, well, CC is going to have a really steep learning curve. The bikes are also going to be tough to learn, they have about an EVE Online steep learning curve...

    I really miss my Keisotsu Snipers and LGLs, mostly the LGL. BS10 SpecFire from 8-16" was really nice.

    The additions are good. Domaru Spitfire was basically constant in my DoHara links. The AP HMG on the O-Yoroi is great for dealing with TAGs, though I still think the better use for a TAG is killing the order pool while your order pool kills his TAG. Flammenspeer Tanko is great for roasting artichokes. But I kinda miss the Haramaki AVA.
     
  6. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    The thing I miss the most is the Core 5-man Haramaki link. I started playing JSA a lot less when the mixed link requirement popped up, just because I really liked that Core link for a pure fire-superiority/big game hunting role.

    I miss bikes having cover too, of course. The day of ARM5 Aragoto thanks to cover and Mimetism was stellar.

    On the whole though, the Sectorial is in a more diverse and accessible place.
     
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  7. KestrelM1

    KestrelM1 Well-Known Member

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    Standard Aragoto quietly lost their Lieutenant option, who I found very powerful for first-turn forays into enemy deployment zones. It also means JSA now leans fairly heavily toward expensive Lieutenants, as you are punished for using Keisotsu and the only other sub-30 option is Domaru. I will miss Haramaki/Tanko AVA, but with their new profiles it's understandable.

    JSA still sticks to its core themes: 25"+ firepower is still at a premium, but the variety of options from 8-24", and especially 0-8" has increased substantially. There are massively more fireteam options and significantly more specialist options, but still no Airborne Deployment and no throwaway template Warbands.

    Overall, JSA is arguably stronger than it's ever been. If you're thinking of coming back, now is a very good time.
     
  8. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    The presence of a midfield antipersonnel mine platform was actually a big playstyle change for me. I was worried that Tanko or Keisotsu missiles would be the only way to project board control, which can be outshot or smoked up and therefore easily bypassed. Koalas, despite being a signature piece of JSA tech, are still not widely available. But then we got the Ryuken-9 SMG, and Minelayer/Suppressive fire from her allows JSA a degree of control and area denial that hasn't been available until now. Throw that in with Yojimbo's Koalas and the MSV2 Kempetai as a very good anti-smoke policewoman, and you have a good defensive presence that doesn't have to rely only on 5 man missile launcher for AROs.
     
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