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Jayth or Caliban

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Daudet, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. Daudet

    Daudet New Member

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    Hi i doing a list for a tornement this weekend... And im looking for a msv 1 in my SEF list.... I look for 2 options.. Jayth red fury at 35pts (give me place for 1 more taigha) or
    caliban msv1 spitfire... Wich one do you choose and why?

    Thanx!
     
  2. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I tend to think of the Caliban. MSV can ruin both of their days but at least the Caliban needs to be discovered first. Plus, he starts further up into +3 range. Don't forget for cheaper than both of them, and MSV2, there's the Haiduk MSR or AP Marksman.
     
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  3. Daudet

    Daudet New Member

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    Thanx! For the Haiduk...i already have 2 noctifer for Aro piece...i need more an attack piece to back up my Sheskiin
     
  4. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Yes unfortunately, due to the Sapper, he only gets the Mimetisim and cover if he stays in it.
     
  5. smog

    smog Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Caliban’s marker state and Protheion makes it better imo
     
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  6. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    Caliban, just like the Zerat with Red Fury, is a bit hampered by Exclusion Zones, as he can't utilize his ability to deploy far up the board. On such missions, I'd strongly consider taking the Jayt with Red Fury instead, especially if what I mainly wanted was a straightforward attack piece or a basic MSV platform. The Jayt is actually better than the Caliban at winning face to face rolls, thanks to the ODD, and has a wee bit more staying power as well, due to his shock immunity, all the while being a whopping 5 points less. He's also a Veteran, which means he can do certain classified objectives that the Caliban can't. There's also something to be said for the Red Fury, in this day and age with everyone and their grandmother having No Wound Incapacitation. E/M Grenades is an interesting piece of equipment as well, though seldom useful, they can be great in a pinch.

    On the other hand, a cammo marker with Protheion is tempting indeed, and I've run the Caliban several times because of that, but not once have I managed to get any use for Protheion.

    Deploying far up the board with mimetism and B4 is actually something the Zerat does much more cost-effectively than the Caliban, and considering that, I have a slightly hard time finding great use for the Caliban. There's better platforms for Protheion mayhem (Ko Dali comes to mind), and Combined has plenty of good MSV options.

    Considering all this, I would actually say that the Jayt is more worthwile.

    TL;DR: I think Jayt has slightly more to offer in most vanilla lists.
     
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  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Funny, i was thinking the Jayth would be fantastic for the mission with the Saturation zone. Power Pack.
     
  8. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Both of them are solid options, but the Jayth really needs to be in a duo or haris to really shine (so he can keep his cover bonus).
     
  9. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    They have at least until they go into Frenzy. Still sucks. They are also better if you can use Nimbus+ for them as well.
     
  10. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    As someone who plays only Vanilla and Morats, I favor the Caliban.

    I've ran CoC caliban with Sheskiin, Engineer Caliban with a Charontid, and Spitfire Caliban with an Anathematic. They always perform well. CoC and Engineer caliban in particular are very useful because they can cover a lot of classified objectives, but I cannot stress how stupidly good that Spitfire with Protheion can be if you manage to devour 1-2 enemy units.

    In one particularly memorable case, I had my Spitfire caliban with 3 wounds sit on an objective on suppressive fire and my opponent simply didn't have the resources to shift it anymore (shaving 3 wounds off a mimetic, suppressive fire model in cover is hard).

    I think that on Shas the Jayth probably has the advantage as the red fury is a better weapon than the spitfire (less cost, better range bands) and the Jayth can escort Messer up the field. But for Vanilla I think the Caliban is the best choice.
     
  11. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    This is my current default Shasvastii starter. I absolutely love the Cutthroat.

    Shasvastii Expeditionary Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]6
    JAYTH CUTTHROATS Red Fury, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon, Knife. (1 | 35)
    VICTOR MESSER (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)
    GWAILO HMG / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 45)
    M-DRONE FTO (Nanoscreen) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 23)
    M-DRONE FTO (Nanoscreen) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 23)
    MENTOR Lieutenant Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)

    3.5 SWC | 176 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Because of the Jayth Redfury I actually think Sheskin becomes a superfluous model. The Jayth needs to be duoed, and the other profiles are terrible. So Victor is always being monopolized by him and can't join a fire team with Sheshkin. When comparing the Sheskin\nox fireteam without Victor & the Gwailos haris, the Gwailos haris wins just because they have repeaters and can use Victor even if he's not with them. Also considering the M-Drones ARO with 2B Flash pulse with portable cover, you get better defensive units that are not hugging terrain.

    When comparing the Jayth with the Caliban, the fact you have a specialist in tow is a bonus.
     
  12. Erbent

    Erbent Well-Known Member

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    I ran both in vanilla since the update, and it depends on the rest of the list and the mission, usually I try to pack as much as possible of utility multipurpose pieces in a limited insertion list, but in general I prefer the red fury jayth as a sort of a stand-in for noctifer spitfire, it's as close as it gets here in terms of points per gunfighting prowess against most common aro pieces, which seem to be a core-linked model with some sort of mimetism, and combining shock ammo, odd and msv1 is just so good for that, albeit 35 pt gunfighter with only one wound feels a bit too pricey, the spitfire msv1 caliban is even more expensive and a bit less effective against typical aro pieces, so when I want to just shoot units off the board the jayth is my choice almost always.
    on the other hand, specialist versions of caliban are almost comparable to shroudeds in terms of cost, and bring quite a different and highly variable toolkit.

    So in general I prefer using jayth's ava 1 for a red fury and caliban's for a specialist to better suit the rest of the list and the mission, I find these to be most efficient ones of their respective options.
     
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