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ITS X Start of Game Sequence

Discussion in 'ITS' started by Vanderbane, Nov 6, 2018.

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  1. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    I gotta imagine this exists somewhere already, but I could not find it. Here’s my understanding of the official start-of-game procedure as of ITS season X. I compiled this from bits and pieces throughout the wiki & Season X book because I did not see a distilled list of the order anywhere, and each time I go to a tourney, people seem a bit unsure about the order of some of the steps. I think things happen like this:

    1. Mission Declaration (from known list announced prior to event)

    2. Pairings (first round random, afterwards by Swiss)

    3. Table Assignments (determined by TO)

    4. Identify armies to opponent (Faction or Sectorial)

    5. Classified Draw(s)

    6. Intelcom roll & announcement (this looks like it can happen any time after the draw - is there a specific timing?)

    7. Select Army List (From two choices built for the event)

    8. Lt. WIP roll

    9. Choice of Deployment vs. Initiative (made by winning Lt. WIP)

    10. Deployment “Main Deployment” round (normal deployment)

    11. Declaration of Fireteam Leaders & deployment coherency check including adjustment during your deployment

    12. Deployment “One Last Figure” round (assuming no strategos)

    13. Declaration of Fireteam Leaders & deployment coherency check _but_ no adjustment allowed during your deployment

    14. Declaration of data tracker (by initiative order)

    15. Provide courtesy list to opponent

    Did I miss anything? Anything out of order? Surely this is condensed somewhere? If not, can we get it stickied if it’s right so that people don't have to go searching for it like I did?
     
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  2. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    its about right to me

    Note the second declaration of fireteams is only allowed if the reserve model is a part of that fireteam
     
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  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I thought DT needs to be decided during deployment, so needs to be decided at step 10 or 12.

    Also steps 10/11 and steps 12/13 aren't distinct steps but occur simultaneously (IE 10&11 and 12&13).

    Edit: so as follows.

    1. Mission Declaration (from known list announced prior to event)

    2. Pairings (first round random, afterwards by Swiss)

    3. Table Assignments (determined by TO)

    4. Identify armies to opponent (Faction or Sectorial)

    5. Classified Draw(s)

    6. Intelcom roll & announcement (this looks like it can happen any time after the draw - is there a specific timing?)

    7. Select Army List (From two choices built for the event)

    8. Lt. WIP roll

    9. Choice of Deployment vs. Initiative (made by winning Lt. WIP)

    10. First player deployment “Main Deployment” round (normal deployment) including HVT deployment and all details about deployed Troopers (such as Fireteam composition, deployment coherency check [including adjustment during your deployment], Xenotech, Datatracker, rolling for Infiltration/Impersonation and rolling for Metachemistry/Booty)

    11. Second player deployment “Main Deployment” round (normal deployment) including HVT deployment and all details about deployed Troopers (such as Fireteam composition, deployment coherency check [including adjustment during your deployment], Xenotech, Datatracker, rolling for Infiltration/Impersonation and rolling for Metachemistry/Booty)

    12. First player Deployment “One Last Figure” round (assuming no strategos) including all details about the Trooper deployed during this step (such as Fireteam composition, deployment coherency check [including adjustment during this Trooper's deployment], Xenotech, Datatracker, rolling for Infiltration/Impersonation and rolling for Metachemistry/Booty)

    13. Second player Deployment “One Last Figure” round (assuming no strategos) including all details about the Trooper deployed during this step (such as Fireteam composition, deployment coherency check [including adjustment during this Trooper's deployment], Xenotech, Datatracker, rolling for Infiltration/Impersonation and rolling for Metachemistry/Booty)

    14. Provide courtesy list to opponent

    Edit2: Datatracker says 'at the end of the deployment phase' so it could conceivably be a step between steps 13 and 14 but the general rule is 'all details about a model must be declared during the step it is deployed' so I think the way I describe it is correct. It's certainly the way I play it.
     
    #3 inane.imp, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Double post.
     
  5. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    Like your changes, @inane.imp, but I read it as happening at between your steps 13 and 14. Happening at the end of the deployment phase would be after step four from the wiki below, would it not? In places where things happen when a model is deployed, it specifies 'immediately after placing' - no such language exists for data trackers.

    Screen Shot 2018-11-05 at 10.23.02 PM.png
     
  6. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    Also, I think this is wrong:

    As per this section, you make the fireteam coherency check (again, assuming the model is a member of the fireteam), but cannot adjust:

    Screen Shot 2018-11-05 at 10.34.40 PM.png
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I think you are correct RAW however CB has a tendency to be loose with 'at the end of' language. I suspect @HellLois meant 'at the end of that players 'Deployment' step' when the ITSX rules said 'at the end of the Deployment Phase'.

    It doesn't phase me either way and I'd happily move to the RAW reading.
     
  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Adjustment of 'those Troopers' is not allowed. Adjustment of the 'Last Figure' is.
     
  9. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, practically speaking we usually declare the datatracker after placing our reserve troop so we don't forget.

    As far the adjustment goes, I'm not sure what that would mean. The adjustment is always relative to the 'reference trooper' - in this case the fireteam leader - who stays stationary. I guess your idea is fine with me for playability, but that's not how I read the rule.
     
  10. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    My point is that you can adjust the Last Figure, the concept of 'reference figure' is nebulous. Say you had two troopers in a Fireteam 9" apart you could adjust them both 0.5" closer during the main deployment. During the Last Figure step you could only adjust the Last Figure 1" closer.

    I agree that the rules are less than clear that is what they intend.
     
  11. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. The reference figure is well defined in the fireteam creation section:

    Screen Shot 2018-11-05 at 10.50.45 PM.png

    So when you do this:

    Screen Shot 2018-11-05 at 10.34.40 PM.png
    The leader - which is the reference trooper - doesn't move. Similarly, I don't think you can move the last figure (I would argue RAW you can't move any figures), as it states "this adjustment is not allowed regarding the last figure kept back as reserve, nor during the deployment of that model"
     
  12. Icchan

    Icchan Well-Known Member

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    You can create a fireteam at any time during your deployment (reserve step too), not just when you place a model related to it.
     
  13. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    'This adjustment' is referring to the entire process of moving troopers after measuring ZoC. So no, if you form a Fireteam while placing the last figure, you don't get to adjust anything for Fireteams.

    As a general response, don't forget that the last figure doesn't need to be involved in the Fireteam in anyway, it's just that you have to be very sure about placement if forming the Fireteams at that point.
     
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  14. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    As far as the sequence goes, I'd simplify it down a bit in places:
    1. Mission declaration, table assignments and pairings. (Because it's not really three steps, and it doesn't matter what sequence they happen in).
    2. Identify Faction/Sectorial.
    3. Draw Classifieds, then roll for Intelcom decisions if required. (Only four missions need the decision.)
    4. Select one of your two army lists.
    5. Initiative Roll between the Lieutenants.
    6. Winner of this roll chooses Deployment or Initiative. If choosing Initiative, they immediately choose the player order.
    7. Loser of the roll chooses deployment zones and deployment order if they got Deployment, or player order if they got Initiative.
    8. Player deploying first deploys their HVT, then everyone but their reserve or any AD troopers. Infiltration and Impersonation rolls are made as that trooper deploys. Fireteams can be formed at this point, with adjustments allowed for Coherency.
    9. The other player does the same.
    10. Player that deployed first places their reserve trooper(s), making Infiltration or Impersonation rolls if needed. Fireteams can be formed now, but without adjustment. Booty and MetaChemistry are now rolled for that player's troopers.
    11. The other player does the same.
    12. DataTrackers (if used) are declared, in Initiative order.
    13. Courtesy lists can be handed over, but each trooper's Open Information is known as soon as it's deployed (if in a non-Marker state etc.).
    14. Start Game Round 1.
     
  15. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @ijw for the clarification. I have one quibble and one comment. Booty and metachemistry both specify they are rolled immediately after placement of each trooper with the skill. This seems designed to avoid surprises for the player deploying second.

    My comment is that if you declare fireteams in the Last Figure step, I would read that as also meaning you cannot have checked coherency for that fireteam during the main deployment step - does that sound right? The coherency check is only allowed in response to assignment of the leader, right?
     
  16. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    See the FAQ at the bottom of the Booty and MetaChemistry pages, it was changed a long time ago. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Booty#FAQ


    Yes, deployment Coherency checks for Fireteams are only done when forming the Fireteam/nominating the Fireteam Leader. This also means that if you've already formed a Fireteam in your 'main' Deployment step, you can't add any reserve troopers to it.
     
  17. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Booty and Metachemistry say that, but the FAQ changes the timing to the end of the deployment.


    You can’t check coherency of the fireteam before declaring that you’re going to make it. Presumably to avoid adjusting or measuring a whole bunch of potential Fireteams and then choosing one.
     
  18. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    So it does. Well, it's always nice when the FAQ changes the plain meaning of the rule text but they don't change the rule to reflect the update. Gives us an opportunity to be unsure of every rule while we hunt down potential conflicting details.
     
  19. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    From time to time, it does feel like CB looks at the forum, reads what people are complaining about, and then promptly decides to do the exact opposite of the proposed solutions. :face_with_head_bandage:

    IJW has been doing what he can do put each of the relevant FAQ entries on the skill and rules pages in the wiki. But unfortunately very few people can afford to fly over to CB HQ, put staff members in headlocks, and make them issue errata. :triumph: As much as we'd like to. :imp:
     
  20. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, by no means was that meant as a shot at @ijw - he does tireless work to keep things clear as possible. In most cases the FAQ clarifies something ambiguous, so once you see the ambiguity you go look for the clarification. On those occasions where the rule is clear but the FAQ changes it, I think new rule text from CB in the rule itself may be warranted.