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ITS season 12, objective rooms, and S5-6

Discussion in 'ITS' started by Triumph, Sep 20, 2020.

  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    @HellLois has any consideration been given to the changes to Narrow Access Points now preventing prone models from entering them in relation to Objective Room missions for next season?

    This punishes Ariadna far more heavily than other factions given that their more durable models that tend to be assigned take and hold objectives or room breaching duties are their various dog shaped models. They are looking at either being unable to perform their job, or in the case of dog faces going inside and then becoming unable to get back outside.
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Looking at the mockups of the Kaldstrøm/Salvora expansion kits it looks like they were at least toying with the idea to have two wider doors on the objective rooms, presumably for S3, 5 and 6. Like the original MAS rooms released in N2.


    20200920_134300.jpg
     
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  3. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    While an acceptable fix, I would be mildly annoyed on the basis I have purchased 6 objective rooms for local use that are not constructed like this.
     
  4. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Isn't that exactly what you're asking them to do?

    Any change that meets your request is going to invalidate your existing rooms unless you're willing to just treat some or all of the doors as wide access ways
     
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  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think if they take Narrow Access off the doors in the ITS pack they actually still work with the movement rules in code 1 without any changes needed.

    MOVE
    SHORT MOVEMENT SKILL
    Movement, No LoF, No Roll.REQUIREMENTS
    Players will check the Requirements of this Skill when declaring it.
    ► The Trooper’s base must always be in contact with the surface on which they intend to move.
    Any surface they move on must be at least half as wide as their base.
    ► The Trooper must be able to finish their movement on a surface that’s equal to or larger than their base.

    The other fix would've been to allow up to S6 to access Narrow Access but I figure they'd be more resistant to that change given the rule books already gone to print.
     
  6. HellLois

    HellLois What the Hell...Lois?
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    remember that narrow gate is only big enough for Troopers with a Silhouette Attribute of 2 or lower, while the Wide gates allows all Troopers to pass through, regardless of their Silhouette value. even if they are in prone, because Troopers in Prone state, with Silhouette X, must apply the Silhouette Attribute value shown on their Unit Profile when considering restrictions for access points.

    And dont worry of you objective rooms, the rules of the missions would determine which access will have the objective room, and if your Objective room have different access, you can use a token/agree with your opponent to determine the access size. It woundnt invalidate your objective rooms.
     
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  7. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    @HellLois do we have any news about that lovely scenario expansion pack?
     
  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Bumping this thread to point out nothing was taken into account @HellLois and the mission parameters unfairly fuck some factions over.

     
  9. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    One solution would be to cut out wider doors and paint singes and blowtorch marks on the edges.
     
  10. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I'm more partial to Missile Launcher's aftereffects! Heck, you could even leave the doors closed and make the holes in a "spiral" fashion (so you can't draw LoF through two doors).
     
  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    The decision to not allow units with bases wider than S2 in to the objective room has clearly been consciously taken.

    Seems like it is being maintained for some sort of balance reason.

    Given the number of ridiculous close combat killers or flamer-template-spammers that have S2 bases, I'm not sure what that balance reason could be.
     
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  12. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    Doesn't objective rooms have wider doors on the side?
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    For Panic Room, yes, for Armoury, no they are all narrow access.

    So if you're a faction that generally relies on S5/6 sized models to put multiwound stuff into rooms to hold them you are now in trouble.
     
  14. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    Huh, hadn't noticed the rooms were different for those. Guess I just supposed they'd work the same. I like the four-door setup a lot more.
     
  15. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't still going prone allow to cross narrow gates for S3+?
     
  16. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    Nope
     
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  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Not anymore, worked in N3.
     
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  18. HellLois

    HellLois What the Hell...Lois?
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    soon tm! :stuck_out_tongue: maybe in a couple of months.

    well, we can say that nothing, nothing was taken into account is not 100% true, in Panic Room Mission, was taken into account :stuck_out_tongue:

    this way, I aim to only get the "mildly annoyed" and not the "full annoyed status" :P (just kidding :wink: ).

    I will tale note for the next ITS update.
     
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  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    True, Panic Room has other factional problems like some factions having a distinct lack of scoring options. Ikari really has to dig to the bottom of the rubbish bin to find things to score with in that mission while Invicible Army laughs with Number 2/NCO/Core linked characters all over the place.

    That said back on topic could I ask that you have a bit of a rethink about Armoury. Besides the fact that the mission is badly balanced fractionally speaking, it's a kick in the teeth to Ariadna to ask them to play take and hold CQC then deny them their strongest multi wound models, it's not great design wise in general for the game.

    To use my old favourite Warmachine term, it's Skornegetic game design, the opposite of synergy. It's the same thing the Daiyokai suffered from last edition.

    You (not you personally) created a unit that was big, tanky, lots of wounds and strong armour and could hold its own in a brawl including CC. All the traits perfect for storming an objective room then trying to hold it for as long as possible. Then you (not you personally) slapped heavy weight on the unit which prevented it from entering the objective room. Now we had a unit designed for room clearing that couldn't enter rooms.

    Unsurprisingly with the unit prevented from filling a design niche in the army it struggled to find a legitimate role in lists after that, it felt crap and you had to buff it in N4 with better link options and NCO to get people to put it on the table and not whinge about them.

    This isn't limited to the Daiyokai, alot of these S5-S6 models are designed around being good candidates to clear rooms and brawl up close in dangerous positions. The Su-Jian shotgun profile, Kiel-saan, the various Dog Warriors, the S5 Sepulchere Knight (probably), Ajax... I'm sure there's some I've missed but you get the point. These units all become less useful, less competitive in faction when you make it impossible to handle clearing rooms because that's a big factor in their design.

    I assume you're not going to fix the mechanics of narrow entryways because they're in hard print now, but for the love of god stick some large doors on the Objective rooms in all of the ITS missions like Armoury.

    The door size not matching my terrain doesn't annoy me that much. It does a bit, but in the same sense that I will be annoyed when I finish painting the alt Qiang Gao as a Shang Ji-sus proxy, the actual Shang Ji-sus sculpt will be spoiled as next month's release.
     
  20. HellLois

    HellLois What the Hell...Lois?
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    Dont assume it so fast ;)
    I will take this in consideration, and for the next ITS update, maybe i change it ;)
     
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