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ITS F2P problematic mechanics.

Discussion in 'ITS' started by FinalForm74, Sep 30, 2021.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That pack is the season's price pack as far as I can tell. Season 11 had a special Jotums and the Ye Mao ML. It doesn't seem to say it'll be part of the pack, either, but have a shared release date.

    Keep in mind that it takes more than one person to play this game, if you scale it up to a tournament it'll take 6+ of which one person will likely decide what missions to play. If you add mandatory extras to the official mission roster, you also add peer pressure to play with these extras if your Warcor/TO/WarcorTO feels like it'd be fun organising it. Typically these are social events and not a commercial transaction so simply saying "you don't have to if you don't want" is simplifying a rather complex situation significantly - a primary reason why I dislike unique temporary units that each player can't quite be expected to have.

    It has a (17-8)/20 to hit the AC2, so 45%.

    Okay, fair enough, I agree it won't make the mission balance worse.
     
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  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Extras are optional, no where does it say they'll be mandatory.

    They've done this before, narrative ITS mission packs that are released alongside Event packs, they did it for Treason, TAG line, Betrayal, and Xenotech. The packs are still available to download. The only difference this year is that TOs have the option of including the TAG-Raid stuff mixed into events they run. However they are no more mandatory that Soldiers of Fortune, Spec-Ops, or any get Extra.
     
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  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Those are narrative events and actual tournament-wide extras, what the post you quote said is that these will be an update to "certain" missions in the Frozen Roads event (which is ITS season 13 main thing), and as far as I know this is the first season they have added extra units to the main ITS season (the Xenotech doesn't count, IMO).
    I.e. what I get from reading that bit is that these will be like the Motorized Bounty Hunters and probably feature in the mission's scoring with no version of the missions without those extras.
     
    #43 Mahtamori, Nov 19, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
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  4. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    It says they'll be available as an Extra to certain missions. First time they've done extras for certain missions rather than the whole tournament, but I didn't think the leap of logic that extras for a misson are just as optional as extras for a whole tournament would be quite so rare for veteran players.
     
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  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'm appealing to your empathy for the situation others will find themselves in when CB officially rubber stamps these units to be the correct way to play. For me this is mostly a driver for customer disloyalty - it's not like I'll have my Digger crew before ITS 13 is over anyway so I might as well get miniatures that I like from whatever place has them. You may have this hill, I'm not willing to die on it.
     
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  6. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    If they do that rubber stamping you'll get my Mea Culpa, for now I'll continue to use the fact they've described them as extras to mean they'll be treated the same as any other extra.
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's you, then, but it doesn't help proverbially shouting at people who are anxious when CB communicates their intent poorly, now does it?
     
  8. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    The way I interpreted your previous post, it was you shouting at people who aren’t anxious about CB communicating their intent poorly, which doesn’t help.
    Further, the Special Tournament Pack (FKA Event Pack) has always been a narrative event pack. The Season 13 prize pack is already available. upload_2021-11-20_20-9-24.png
    https://store.corvusbelli.com/organized-play/infinity/all/its-season-13-tournament-pack
     
  9. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Hecaton is the apotheosis of being deliberately obtuse, I know you know this as well. :joy:
     
  10. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    I guess I live in hope...
     
  11. Doppelganger

    Doppelganger New Member

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    When new ITS hit the ground some people from our gaming group was concerned with free biker. Now, with this announcement we are all not happy. We already decide, that no way we bring this "free" minis on the table.
     
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  12. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    That's quite alright, all the information we have so far is that they'll be extras so you can choose to play without them, just like Soldier of Fortune or Spec-Ops, but applied to certain missions rather than a whole tournament.
     
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  13. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I don't remember people getting this upset over the season that had the ALIVE hacker crew.
     
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  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Didn't have miniatures attached to it, I believe the main concern is that CB might drift towards more GW like practices of releasing miniatures with planned obsolescence.

    Personally I've been running some double MBH lists in Vanilla Yu Jing using the extra free one on certain missions like Capture and Protect. The double bikes have actually been alot of fun, and they've more or less MVP'd 4/4 games I've played on that mission with the list.

    I like the mechanic of free things. It opens a new window in the aspect of mission design, and it can potentially be used to make missions more creative without needing to worry about the factional imbalances as much when designing them.

    However the reality is if I buy two MBH, at the end of the day I can only run one of them once the season ends. This does leave a bad taste in my mouth. If I were to make one change to the system, it'd be not to do this for models with only one profile sculpted.

    Having more MBH or whatever would be less annoying if the MBH box came with multiple arms, so even if the season ended and the player could no longer use 2 MBH they'd be less annoyed if they've built a model for both the Red Fury profile and the SMG profile, even though they can't use them together there's still the value of having two different models rather than a duplicate you'll never have reason to put on the table again.
     
    #54 Triumph, Nov 22, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
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  15. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    People were not upset over the season with the ALIVE hacker crew because they were never given out for free during a season. Having a season that involved introducing new mercs is nothing special. We have had libertos for ages or the relatively new monstruckers and people have only been annoyed at their effectiveness (specifically for n3 libertos), not their existence. I would have been upset then and upset now if a bunch of scenarios had just free ALIVE hacker crew, can be a haris, and doesn't count against the haris limit.

    While I know @colbrook keeps sayings its extra and therefore won't be mandatory in scenarios. We have yet to ever have (as far as i have been playing) optional extras that only were applied to specific scenarios. it has either been scenario-independent optional like spec-ops, or a mandatory extra on specific scenarios such as the new blizzard or snow-ops. Them saying anything about these extras 5 months early with no specifics is pretty awful, especially with no specifics.
     
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  16. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I kind of feel like everyone getting in a panic over something that has no details and is 5 months away is also kind of awful...
     
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    When you communicate things, people interpret them and try to put them into relation with how their situation is. If your communication is unclear, people will have an uncertain situation and you leave things more open to interpretation. This is typically why the job Community Manager is a thing; to stay on top of these things and give answers to when people start assuming the wrong things.
     
  18. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    I've searched Event Pack to make sure if I remembered correctly, and found the ITS 11 Stakeout Event Pack. (https://store.corvusbelli.com/organized-play/infinity/all/xi-season-event-tournament-pack) There is nothing in that pack that suggest it was meant to be played with the Stakeout narrative mission pack rather than the ITS Stakeout tournament mission set (the regular season 11 of the infinity tournament system). Therefore I do remember correctly; in that the Event Pack are nothing more than a bundle of a regular official ITS Tournament code + a bunch of prizes.

    This one will come at the same time as a free content update... that is the same thing a FAQ does (it updates ITS contents, for free).
     
  19. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Xenotech had a narrative event PDF to go along with the event pack, which could be run as an official ITS event.
    https://t.co/RFVU9qPG0d?amp=1

    Treason had a narrative event PDF to go along with the event pack, which could be run as an official ITS event.
    https://downloads.corvusbelli.com/infinity/casual-game/narrative-event-treason-en.pdf

    TAGline had a narrative event PDF to go along with the event pack, which could be run as an official ITS event.
    https://downloads.corvusbelli.com/infinity/casual-game/narrative-event-tagline-en.pdf

    You are correct that there was nothing for the Stakeout pack, but that was also during the height of COVID when many countries were in lockdown, and the event pack was released later than usual towards the end of the Season, again because of COVID.

    I don't know, maybe I'm delusional in thinking that something described as being released as an extra as part of an event pack will work like previous extras and previous event packs. Maybe I should ignore all prior releases and track record and jump straight to the worst possible scenario I could imagine. I definitely shouldn't wait until April for the actual release before declaring that the sky is falling and the game is ruined!
     
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  20. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Now, now, don’t be reasonable and measured. Don’t use past events to provide hints for this one. That’s not what the Interwebz are for. Panic, seethe, and scream. That’s what you’re supposed to do.
     
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