Hey guys! Coming up to the biggest event in Australia. I am planning on running ISS - I am pretty much locked in with my two lists, so the aim of this post is not to seek alterations. Rather I hope to seek opinions regarding potential list weakness and susceptibility regarding certain missions and certain factions. Hopefully this will help me develop some foresight and awareness for the event! Many thanks for your contributions! Missions (in order as will be played at event) / The (A) | (B) indicates which list I plan to use for the mission -Supremacy (B) -Decapitation (A) -Front line (B) -Supplies (B) -Firefight (A/B) List (A) List A ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 BÀO TROOP (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29) BÀO TROOP (Multispectral Visor L2, Biometric Visor L2) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Chain of Command, Fireteam: Haris) Red Fury / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36) SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) KǍNRÈN Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, MadTraps / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 28) KǍNRÈN Minelayer Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt, Sniffer / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 27) CRANE IMPERIAL AGENT Lieutenant (Sensor, X Visor) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army List (B) Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 HSIEN Lieutenant HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) ZHÀNYING (Fireteam: Haris, Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 27) ZHÀNYING Hacker (Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 32) LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) KǍNRÈN Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0.5 | 32) KǍNRÈN Minelayer Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt, Sniffer / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 27) MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Method/Madness behind lists: (A) - This list was predominately designed for Decapitation. It's a list i hoped would work well going second, as that is the worst case scenario for that mission. 5 VP for killing HVT with Data tracker is a huge swing, so I hoped to prevent my opponent from doing this easily - hence the 4 madtraps, which will likely be deployed around my HVT in a box formation. Hopefully spending majority of his first turn doing this, so then i can counter-attack with my Su-Jian which starts 16'' (extended DZ) and knee cap his/her orderpool. I feel this list could also be useful for firefight, as I can hopefully use the 4 madtraps to zone out the enemy AD. (B) - This list was designed with key core concepts of countering my opponents tools and sustainability, the ability to take on any ARO pieces was extremely important to me with this list. I really enjoy this list, but I must say it leans heavily on Lu Duans for its mobility. I feel confident going up against any ARO piece in the game thanks to Nimbus/MMLX or Smoke MSV2 - I like to deploy the Lu Duans on the flanks and the Hsien central. Final thoughts: I am quiet scared of Tags, I have to admit - I do not have anything that really cracks their armour and even with 5 burst HMG it will be quite order intensive to take out a tag in cover. Anyway, C&C welcome! Thanks
Why Kanren? Ninja is better in my opinion. And kanren minelayer will place sniffer not mine, do you know it? For heavy list try this one Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) WÚ MÍNG Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33) WÚ MÍNG HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 39) (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 299 Points And for Hsien+haris may be this one Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) ZHÀNYING (Fireteam: Haris, Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 27) ZHÀNYING (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades, MadTraps / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) CRANE IMPERIAL AGENT (X Visor) Spitfire, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 54) XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) CELESTIAL GUARD Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 298 Points
Against TAGs, both of your list feature 2 monofilament martial artists with smoke support to hunt it down and mad traps or a decent repeater coverage with hackers to limit the onslaught. You should be fine.
In Decapitation, you don't need CoC, as Loss of Lieutenant cannot occur. It's even bad to have it, because this way your opponent can kill two LTs in one turn. The Crane should be pretty safe though.
I love MadTraps, just be mindful of how you place them. One single enemy activating all of them, or someone getting clear LoF to them would be really sad. I know you said you weren't looking for advice on lists, but It's kinda odd that you have a 4-person Core there (just wanted to point it out since several of the missions are shootout heavy, and that +3 BS bonus is hella nice there). Best of luck!
Agree on Madtraps. I love them but one Yuan Yuan jumping down or hologram in the middle can take them all out with a sacrifice.
Thanks for the feedback so far! Regarding the madtraps, they are a delicate tool, but if my opponent is clearing them out it wont be with his datatracker, so that's orders spent. However you guys are generally correct they take some care. @zapp @Zewrath - awesome advice! Thank you! As far as the kenran minelayer, i really want midfield control, and want to be efficient at clearing out camo skirmishers. Hence the sniffers. In the (A) i use my Lt order to sensor and Su Jian to clear. In the (B) list i have to use orders from the pool, however i use Lu Duans to clear. Which ties in with me not having a 5 man link, i wanted to keep three attack vectors(Su jian, Crane, Harris). I feel dropping the bao would nerf the harris too much and make me vulnerable to impersonators.
In all seriousness, are you playing a limited insertion tournament? ISS does two large order groups better than most, and taking advantage of it isn’t a bad idea.
I disagree that it is a must, but Imperial SS certainly does 17+ orders much more easily than most sectorials. Even Haqq or Ariadna. Those are awfully squishy lists for only running 10 orders (barring the Wu Ming mini-train).
To put Section9's comment in perspective, the last tournament I went to I took a pair of 20 order lists, one of which was a wu ming pain train, the other a more traditional hsien, rui shi, battlecat approach. Lost one game to nomads by a single point but there were several misplays on my part in that game. The other two were full point victories (and ended both with victory points in excess of my starting army value). This isn't to say you can't do limited insertion but I think the real power of ISS comes from the ability to run 20 orders with some strong attack pieces. Japanese Loyalist Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 4 CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) ZHÀNYING Hacker (Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 32) WÚ MÍNG HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 39) WÚ MÍNG Boarding Shotgun + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33) WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) GROUP 2 10 4 CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Frost-Byte ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 8 CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) GROUP 2 10 CELESTIAL GUARD Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Thanks everyone, i understand the value and strength of Kuang shi spam. However, it is not what i am taking to the tournament, what i've chosen to take are two limited insertion lists that I feel are good toolboxes for most problems and hopefully scenarios. If there is anything you feel those lists wont deal with well, or struggle in said scenarios i'd love to hear it!
