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Is there any mileage in 'Guided?

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Jam800, Nov 8, 2020.

  1. Jam800

    Jam800 Member

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    Hello hivemind

    So after having played my first N4 game using SEF, I got a bit of a trouncing at the hands of a Squalo.

    Some of this was in part due to bad luck and the rest was down to judgement errors.

    That said I also found the TAG turning my boys into clouds of red mist, if they did ARO and try to return fire.

    So this got me thinking about running a list using a Nox link which would hide at the back, containing a T-drone and a Smart multi-sniper and use mid-table hackers and FOs to Spotlight/Target priority targets for the guided weapons to strike from total cover.

    I know this wasn't necessarily a particularly viable tactic in N3 but I was wondering if anyone else has tried this since N4 came about...? I guess the ability to use hacking as an ARO may now make guided weapons a little scarier but is it really worth investing in and basing a list around...?
     
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  2. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I don't have enough games under my belt to really say yet, but I do think that guided looks like a bit more viable of a tactic in N4. If you have decent repeater coverage it's pretty doable to get lots of spotlights out in ARO, and they don't expire until the enemy spends an order to Reset. So if you've got hacking and repeaters, throwing in a guided weapon to punish them for it isn't a bad idea. However, watch out if you're leaving it out as an ARO piece as well - all you're doing at that point is painting an even bigger target on it.
     
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  3. Jam800

    Jam800 Member

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    Thanks!

    I have no intention of leaving the Guided troops sitting in the open.

    Intent was to sit them at the back and use their range to cover (at least) up to the enemy DZ.

    Trouble is it leaves me a bit light on actual active ARO pieces as most would just be threats in marker state or hidden deployment. Might not be too much of a problem but it does rely on the midfield troops doing their job in Spotlighting targets via ARO (or active turn) but the midfield guys will also have to work as the specialists for objective grabbing...

    I'd provide an example list if I could only work out how to drop the army code on here...
     
  4. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    There's a limit of 5 guided attacks per turn, the burst is set at 1, and only one model in the Fireteam can be the active model... and given Guided also says it ignores all Mods except it's own and that of ECM/Tinbots, it probably doesn't benefit from being in a link either, except as an ARO piece.

    I don't see there's really any reason to use the Guided MSR ever if you can take the T-drone. (if your intention is just using it for Guided attacks)
     
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  5. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    The other option is that if you 1. were already taking the Nox sniper and 2. were planning on taking hackers anyway, you might get a few guided attacks of opportunity, even if it's not what you were planning on building around. Same thing for some of the sectorials that can put a missile bot into a fireteam while also having good repeater coverage.
     
  6. Jam800

    Jam800 Member

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    My intent was really to use these pieces in ARO predominantly. So midfield would be doing all the leg-work and would make the opponent think twice about moving forward aggressively, forcing them to spend orders resetting. Maybe having both MSR and T-Drone would be a bit OTT but I was hoping it would assure a hit, if not a kill on a heavily armoured target...? Failing that it may at least stall progress...?

    I should also say that some of this thinking is bourne out of the fact that I generally end up going 2nd

    I was considering breaking the T-drone out of the link though and use the fireteam bonuses for a more mobile firebase...

    ...I guess I just need to experiment; win some/lose some and find out what works...
     
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  7. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    My initial Shas list (what I'm trying to build/paint to as my "getting started" force) includes a Nox/T link. I somewhat intend to use the threat of the Guided munitions to force my opponent into engaging it - probably setting up some Nocti Missile overwatch on the likely approaches.
     
  8. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
    Warcor

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    Guided is useful if
    - you can slot ML bot without any significant sacrifices (points, swc, roster slot)
    - you have means of applying targeted state via FO
    - you have means of applying targeted state via good repeater coverage
    - you want to have an indirect way of dealing with some targets

    Keep in mind that now guided always applies impact template to any weapon and mode you're using. Basically meaning that you always be shooting AP+EXP with impact template.
    Even if you use it against TAG yeah it's gonna be order intensive (up to 5 orders, as you're limited to 5 ML guided attacks), but it's pretty safe of dealing with such threat.

    From my experience, for example, guided ML bot is great in Nomads because they have good midfield repeater presence, pitchers, midfield hackers, and it's a great additional tools to deal with targets they wouldn't want to take on head to head.
    guided ML bot is good in VIRD because it can join a fireteam, so you're saving a lot, as you'd want to fill out a core link anyway. They have access to forward repeaters, peacemaker, and FO Crocman with deployable repeater, so they could potentially clear something around the corner.
    T-drone slots into nox core, but in N4 I'm not really sold on Nox core, as I don't really see any benefit out of that. Also it's an extra bummer, but T-drone is 18pts, while other ML bots cost 1-2pts less.
     
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  9. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    I see a guided missile remote generally as a means of making my opponent nervous about taking unopposed spotlight AROs, and getting some sneaky mileage out of 6-2 move aggressive models who also happen to be hackers. As a primary strategy it's both order-intensive and luck-dependent. You can roll with it, but it's sort of next to N3's Squalos spec fire lists. You always want a better first option if you can.
     
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  10. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    It's not your "plan A", but after my first game as nomads shooting pitchers next to link teams and TO assault units.... we had to spend time to make sure we were doing everything right.
     
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  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    I've been a big user of Guided since N2, and it was definitely viable in N3. People just didn't use it well.

    Like others say, it's a back-up tactic if you can't handle a hard target directly through sneaking or face to face shooting. I usually also place the missile launcher (or sniper, for Nox) as an ARO option on a firelane that I don't think the opponent will choose, but i would be boned if he did (like going over a rooftop with a climbing plus unit or something).

    Functionally the best option is usually to have in in a 5- or 6-order Group 2 with no other key pieces in there. Have all your targeting units (hackers, camo or drop units with repeaters, FOs) in Group 1.

    It will usually take you between 2-4 orders to get the Spotlight on, so try to accomplish something else with those orders as well (like getting into a nasty flanking approach). If you managed to get the Spotlight in with an ARO udring the opponent's turn, even better!

    Then rain missiles on your target for up to 5 orders.

    I find TAGs less-tasty targets if they have ECM against Guided, but if you're not hitting that Squalo any other way it's not a terrible choice. Remember they have a -3 to their Dodge for a template from out of sight. That's a 50/50 on each shot vs. drones/Nox (8 vs 8), not great but not bad to bag a TAG. Try to kill their repair options with your remaining orders or whoever was sneaking in to get the Spotlight on in the first place.

    Lone or Haris-linked HI, clumped cheerleaders, obvious Lt.s are my favorite targets for a Guided shot though. If you can get those, it's a nice thing to have.
     
  12. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
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    As others have mentioned, if you have the means to dish out Spotlight AROs then the presence of a Guided weapon means your opponent will have to spend orders on Reset. So just having a guided tool isn't enough, and you probably don't want to spend much of your active turn forward observing or spotlighting. Our only Deployable Repeater is on Bit & Kiss, pitchers on Bit and Ker-nau, and our only regular repeaters are on R-Drones, M-Drones, and Ikadrons, all of which you'll have to spend orders on to get into position to take full advantage.

    CA does have some great hackers, but generally poor repeater coverage, which to me doesn't make investing in Guided that great, unless you have some cunning plan to cover the board in hackers and repeaters. Armies like Nomads and YJ which can start with repeaters on the board gets a lot more interesting.
     
  13. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    @TheDiceAbide , despite Corregidor having great repeater coverage, when I play Bakunin and have GML as a backup the targeting is usually dropped directly by an infiltrator hacker (Zero) or the Meteor back when it had Sat-Lock. Direct use by a hacker infiltrator or drop trooper is a legit tactic, and CA do have enough of those. Heck, one has effectively 2 wounds, even.
     
  14. Jam800

    Jam800 Member

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    Thanks for all the comments.

    I guess in a nutshell:

    Guided is a viable tactic but probably not worth building your list around for a SEF force that can't maximise on a wide repeater net...

    I may have to have another rethink on my list then!
     
  15. bloodw4ke

    bloodw4ke Well-Known Member

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    Not SEF, but I could see Guided as an opportunistic plan B for Onyx. Kerr-Nau in a Unidron link is solid anti-hacker tech, given that he can lob repeaters pretty far with a B2, +3 BS pitcher. He doesn't have spotlight, but if you're feeling punchy you could put a Nexus hacker (or two) in the link.

    Vs. my hacker-loving Nomad playing friend I've had good luck with this core: Screenshot_20201110-081629.png

    Spotlight AROs to fish for targeted, Guided shots in T2, then ARO duty T3.
     
  16. Mics152

    Mics152 Member

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    I use guided a lot in IA. I think of it as a way of attacking where my link can’t be, a hacker on the other side of the table spotlighting things for the linked guided ML shots to rain down upon. Now that its a short order said link can still advance whilst raining murder down on the hackers target.