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Is the Betrayal+Outrage Guijia realistic?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Mahtamori, Aug 21, 2020.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    IMO, N4 has made it possible to make it fair.

    Shower thoughts incoming. You have been warned.

    There's a few things I can see that has changed that can make it not only fair but more importantly; less of a design risk. Let me outline them and hear what you think.

    1. Airborne Deployment is no longer a levelled skill.
    One of the bigger things that I could see being a potential deal breaker with N3 AD4 Guijia is the fact that you didn't have to take a risk, you could just walk on the table without a roll. Now CB can simply not give the Guijia the skill Airborne Deployment.

    2. Airborne Deployment doesn't need to roll using the Guijia's PH.
    So the Guijia has a high PH, even for a TAG, and that could have made the roll so much a lower risk that it would have been a lot less interesting.
    Now, instead, they can simply dictate "Combat Jump (PH=13)"

    3. Dispersion is no more (probably)
    While a Guijia is somewhat unlikely to actually land in an open spot when dispersing, it is certainly equipped to take stray ARO and roll with it and this could be a balance issue. Now instead the Guijia would directly be relegated to the back line.

    4. The landing method is already modelled.
    With the servo rockets, the Guijia (may not) necessarily have need of an external landing method. In fact, there is an argument to be made for two separate profiles where one uses the servos fuel to land and the other uses it to Super Jump.

    So. What do you think? Would a CJ Guijia be fair and interesting?
     
  2. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    I'm somewhat on the fence. I'd love for YJ to get an AD TAG, but I do think it would benefit the Blue Wolf a lot more due to their short to mid range weaponry and smaller silhouette.

    We do know that Combat Jump and Parachutist are two separate skills in N4. Some AD profiles might have Combat Jump only to balance things out.

    As for the Guijia, it needs some sort of help and some form of AD would be welcome. Its base size already puts some rather heavy restrictions on placement, so the above average PH would be a nice way to compensate for that. It can land only in select spots, but it will do so fairly reliably.
     
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  3. REND

    REND Well-Known Member

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    Do you remember the Caskuda?

    Narratively I like the idea but from a game standpoint. Please no.

    Combat jump is something I don't want to see much more of and the more expensive an AD unit is, the more commitment your game revolves on it delivering some return.
     
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  4. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'd like something like parachutist so it can only come from a side.
     
  5. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    I’m with @REND : Nope.
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think Super Jump is far less of a nightmare to balance and it'd still appropriately represent the capabilities of the TAG
     
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  7. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Even a piece of disposable automatic equipment that grants Super Jump for a single order.
     
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  8. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    That's a great idea! Equipment that can give you a temporary skill is cool.
     
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  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I doubt we'll see new skills/equipment popping up in the book that's supposed to be reducing rules, maybe for a future book.
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think there's been a fair amount of very important changes from when the Caskuda was a thing that this is not comparable, above all else to the HMG range bands.

    In fact.
    5. Dodging mechanics now allow for better responses to units Combat Jumping behind or near you.

    I'm curious. Why inflict disposable on us?
    We have a mimetic climb+ TAG without disposable traits and a Guijia-with-HRMC with climb+, and in N4 as well as with Koni's addendum to climbing in N3 the climb+ is a means for some pretty damned startling bursts of speed and verticality that Super-Jump simply can't match - particularly with larger bases

    Dear lard, NO.

    Did they really cut the complicated mechanics of RPGs away from the game because they were slowing things down only to add character sheets as requirement to track ammunitions and abilities to the game? No, in my opinion, disposable should be used because you have to, not because you can.
     
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  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Refresh my memory what addendum?
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's about how climbing models gain free movement. When you climb, you snap on to a surface which results in free movement. Explicitly stated as free.

    This isn't a big deal for regular models, it mostly makes climbing skill easier to manage and actually a bit useful for elevation changes, but for Climb+ models this can result in quite a bit of extra movement - for a Zeta, the TAG will actually move faster if it is climbing over an obstacle that is between 68mm and 109mm because it will gain 55mm free horizontal movement when it reaches the top but will spend less than 55mm moving vertically.
    It's basically the kind of mechanic quirk that in computer games allow the speed runner to really break a game open, for those of you watching SGDQ atm ;)

    Unless this is plugged through a mechanic that I haven't spotted yet.
     
  13. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Right. The movement lines are not quite up to scale in the examples for this and the one for ladders seem to have the Fusilier move exactly 6" and I didn't find anything that explicitly recalls that behaviour, so I estimated the lines were showed including the free snap-on :(
     
  15. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Yeah, the scaling for the ladder diagram isn’t great, but the green arrow showing the length of the move has 4” on it.
     
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That's kinda worrying if it applies to Super Jump too - it means that a lot of building you can't jump off of, when in N3 you could just jump horizontally straight out and fall.
     
  17. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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  18. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    Code 1 jumping is weird as heck. IIRC you can't just jump into air and fall. You need to jump onto surface, showing trajectory, and the entire trajectory length cannot exceed move.
     
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  19. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    Super Jump would be enough to make me play the Guijia just because it would be cool. While you are at it, give it to Lei Gong too along with a Panzerfaust or something; if you are just gonna copy Blizzard then at least go deep in and let justice rain from above.
     
    #19 Benkei, Aug 22, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
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  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Which means that if you're an S2 super jumper on a building that's more than about 3" high, you can't jump down with one short skill.
     
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