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Is Full Auto going away in N4?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Zewrath, Mar 21, 2020.

  1. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Now, it is no secret that I am not a fan of neither Full Auto 2 nor Fatality 2 but this isn't about ranting on those two rules but rather to speculate on something that occured to me, after the reveal of the new YJ Direfoes character.

    Since I saw Adil Mehmut had a Nanopulser with the description og +1B I merely though to myself that this was more of a streamlining of Dual Weapons but then I saw he had a weapon that would also give fixed modifiers in CC only, so this got me thinking: Is CB getting rid of FA and replacing it with the burst/modifier bonus on the weapon they specifically want to grant those bonuses?

    Like for example, would the N4 Kriza Borac or Sogorat be changed to HMG +1B or Feurbach +1B respectively?

    I don't know, why and I know I literally have nothing to base this on other than pure speculations, but what do you guys think? Do you think there's a possibility or am I reading waaay too much into this?
     
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    It's a neat way to do it. Gets rid of "Dual Weapons" at the same time. You'd just fluff it as being the result of either multiple weapons, extra ammo or systems that allow control automatic fire more effectively.

    You might need to keep a dual weapons rule for Scavenger, and you'd need to consider how Scavenger interacts with taking a "+1 Burst" weapon. But honestly, they're both problems best dealt with in the Scavenger rule and kept away from general play.

    This probably didn't need its own thread though. It could easily have been a post in the general N4 speculation thread.
     
  3. Eclipse

    Eclipse Spice Dealer

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    It would be coherent with their game design intent to revamp nested skills. However since you'd be losing some functionnality in the case you are describing, I guess they might also revamp the skills to keep their peculiar special effects, something like "HMG B+1, Full Auto" with Full Auto's effect being the current L2 one. We might also see things like "Weapon X B+Y" with Y > 1 I guess, if it makes any balancing sense to them.
     
  4. Furiat

    Furiat Mandarin

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    If this is true then it should clarify interaction with link bonuses because dual weapons benefit from bonus and full auto doesn't
     
  5. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Well assuming that FA and Dual Weapons disappears in N4 then there would be no need to clarify anything as it would be replaced by the +1B bonus
     
  6. Furiat

    Furiat Mandarin

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    yup but kriza +1B doesn't stack with link +1B and zuyong double pistol does. Would kriza het B6 HMG then?
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Assuming the hard limit on no B6 ever, then if Dual Weapons is merged with FA1 as +1B then it's likely that Dual Weapons will no longer get a burst bonus from fireteams (perhaps the burst bonus from fireteams will go?), or B4 weapons on linkable troops will lose their +1. Would it be so bad if Kriza were Suppression-6 rather than B+1, Suppression-3 ?
     
  8. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    No dual weapons has an interesting interaction with panoplies, too, if it happens. Do they just as a burst, or are they a dead draw?
     
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    You'd just have it become +1B.
     
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  10. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    I highly doubt suppressive fire would ever benefit from the +1B, so I don't think we will see SF with 4B

    Full Auto's burst can becone +1B easilly. CB just needs to:
    a.- put an explicit limit to max burst to 5
    b.- forbid for same skill to be stacked (So +1B from dual weapons +1 burst from fireteam and +1B from Full auto mean only +1B), but that would be a nerf to some other units out there. So I don't see this happening
    c.- Allowing for max B6, making the kriza haris at least meaningfull.

    Also, I think we can se the -3 BS from Full auto just becoming mimetism. It would be a bit of absurd to be streamlining skills, while at the same time keeping a skill that has the same malus for the enemy (with little differences, like when is applied). Maybe they create a suppressive fire malus, but if it is non-stackable, the +1B should also be non-stackable.
     
  11. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    Adil has (CC Attack -3) worded as a replacement to I-Khol (apparently), so Full Auto L2 can become (+1B and (BS Attack -3).

    And I would very much not like it becoming mimetism because I need something in the army to have a fighting chance against linked MSV2 snipers.
     
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  12. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    yes, I understand what you mean, but CB has its preferences, and nomads are not in there, so I don't know why they will want us to have extra tools against MSV2 when we also have white noise. They nerfed FA once because some rants, I can see it happening again.
     
  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    "Suppression -3" which is essentially what FA2 and the Suppression Fire state apply in N3 (which is why they're mutually exclusive) affects a lot more than just BS Attack. Admittedly I-Kohl does as well so perhaps they'll change it so that it is is BS Attack -3 but with active turn Dodges getting a massive boost then still applying a -3 OPP regardless of declaration that would be great.

    It's why I'd like "Suppression -6" to replace FA2. The odds ends up very similar to +1B, -3 OPP on FTFs but it works better as part of Suppression Fire (B3, -6 OPP in ARO before cover is really quite good) and it can make use of Burst bonuses from Fireteams without running into B6 issues. Basically you trade a little active efficiency as a gunfighter for better defensive and linked performance: this seems reasonable to me.

    That way you get:
    FA1 only, Dual Weapon. Becomes +1B, stacks with Fireteam bonuses.
    FA2. Becomes Suppression -6. Doesn't stack with other sources of Suppression.
    Suppression Fire state. Allows you declare BS Attacks AROs using the nominated weapon at B3 with the Suppression -3 skill.

    If you get multiple <skill>+/- X abilities, then you can use the highest value but they don't stack.
     
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  14. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    I can see this happening. But sadly, not the suppression -6.
     
  15. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I just ran the numbers. Suppression -6 is actually a big improvement on +1B, -3 OPP for single target FTFs.

    Vs Kamau

    Current (+1B, OPP-3): 43.5% vs 29%
    OPP-6: 48.3% vs 21%

    So yeah... it's realistically off the cards. *sigh* you could do away with the HMG in that format as well. :'(

    The Mk-12 ends up as 40.3% vs 25.2%, which would give similar unlinked performance to the HMG but with the balancing factors of needing to get into range and the cost/benefit of 360 visor.

    This would then allow HMG Grenzers for LR firepower. Which would work well in TJC.
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's not i-Kohl, it's a specific CCW and considering the unit he's most lilely based on it's a Paralyzing CCW that replaces Electric Pulse.
     
  17. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    He has both CC Attack -3 in skills and PARA CCW (-3) in weapons
    [​IMG]
    Which is why people keep saying that he can do a -9 on opponent with those and MA stacked
     
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  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, sorry, that's true. I blame the fever for not reading what you wrote correctly.

    I'm not sure they/we quite want to decouple Full-Auto from a few extra rules, though, but others have also noted on that.
     
  19. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, if Full Auto or something like it stays, the +1 burst from level 1 should apply in ARO and the minus 3 BS from level 2 shouldn't. It's ass backwards the way it is now.
     
  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    How do you fugue that?