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Is a silhouette value of a Camouflaged trooper open information?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Ariwch, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

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    The rule for camo state says

    Camouflage Markers (CAMO) retain the Silhouette (S) values printed on their troop profiles.
    If the Camouflage Marker is concealing a weapon or a piece of Equipment with the CH: Camouflage Special Skill, its Silhouette (S) value is 2.

    but is a Silhouette open info? Suppose, I deploy seed soldier in prone state – his profile has S0, but he is still a trooper, so I can put the Prone marker near it, making it S0 again.

    Should I say that his "true" Silhouette is also S0 thus clearly revealing that it's a Seed-Embryo or can I just say his current S is 0, thus making it indistinguishable from any prone camouflaged trooper S0-S2?
     
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  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    If we're going to go full RAW Seed Soldiers don't have a printed profile, just an electronic one, so you tell them nothing! :P
     
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  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It won't be indistinguishable when your opponent asks "where's the prone marker?"
     
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  4. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    What if the Seed-embryo is prone?
     
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  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I lol'd. And then realised this is actually the answer.

    Always Deploys Seeds Prone and their Sil is S0. Problem solved.
     
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  6. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    The OP's question is if you need to share the original "printed" Silhouette as well as the fact it is prone.

    Basically do you tell your opponent:

    "This camo marker is hiding a prone model that is currently Silhouette 0"

    Or

    "This camo marker is hiding a prone model that usually Silhouette 0/2/5/etc but is currently Silhouette 0"
     
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  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Why would I need to share Private Information?

    The profile of the trooper in a Camo marker state is Private. The Sil of the Camo Marker itself (so S0 if prone) is open information.

    "This Camo marker is Prone and so is S0 and has a 25mm base."
     
  8. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

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    The question is exactly if the true silhouette is private or not.

    And yes, opportunity won't ask for the prone marker, as I'll have to and will put it, the clearly showing that the campus not a mine or a decoy.
     
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The troopers profile IS private information.

    The Marker's Sil is 0 because the Marker is prone. This is open information.
     
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  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    At which point the attempted subterfuge is pointless because it'll have an actual S value of 0 regardless if it is a Marker or not.
     
  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Tl;dr no you can't pretend Seed Embryos are Mines or vice versa.
     
  12. Asgeir

    Asgeir Well-Known Member

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    Ouch. Hiding an antipode pack as prone 25 mm markers would create a nasty surprise...
     
  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    S0 retains the size of the parent SIL or is 25mm.

    So when prone the Camo markers representing Antipodes are a cylinder 3mm high and 40mm I. diameter and they are 'S0'.
     
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  14. Asgeir

    Asgeir Well-Known Member

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    Good to hear, thx.
     
  15. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

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    You are activating your camoed hacker and move him in ZoC of my repeater. I have a hacker in my army. If I ask if the camo is hackable, you have to answer "yes". Was my hacker in Hidden Deployment, I could ask the same question, but had to put TO camo marker, thus revealing I have TO hacker in my army. Wrong, it's for holoprojections only.

    Also I cannot use 25 mm camo marker to represent Sphinx or Uhlan.

    While camouflaged trooper is private information, there is still some ambiguation regarding details of said profile, so the question :)
     
    #15 Ariwch, Apr 24, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  16. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    You can ask, but that's private information so you won't get an answer.
     
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  17. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

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    Hi ijw,

    That's very interesting as that means we played it wrong locally :)

    Could you answer the initial question as well?
     
  18. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    A Prone trooper has Silhouette 0. Being in Camouflaged state doesn't change this.
     
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  19. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

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    That's clear. But should I reveal that it would not be S0 if it was not prone?
     
  20. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    No. Just like if you activate a camo’d trooper and move it, you don’t start reciting your MOV stat and profile.

    The public information is that it’s a 25mm camo marker that’s prone (so you should have a Prone Marker next to it) and thus S0. So that LoF works.

    What the silhouette would become when you cancel prone is as irrelevant as whether you could have deployed the trooper in TO camo instead. Because it’s irrelevant to LoF, it remains private.
     
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