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Irregular Overload?!

Discussion in 'Ikari Company' started by GorkkTheOrc, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. GorkkTheOrc

    GorkkTheOrc Active Member

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    Hello wonderful community. I've finally busted out my Ikari force after playing ALEPH for the last year, and it has been such an exciting change of pace. I still love my ALEPH but it's fun to throw down a pile of crazed mercs who are out for blood and will stop at nothing to get the job done.

    My thought/question is: How do you deal with all the Irregular/cheap units?

    I've played 2x games so far and seem to come up with these massive 17-19 unit lists where half of that is irregular orders. I don't mind the impetuous side of things, but trying to figure out the right blend of irregular vs regular and if I'm just taking too many Desperados, Yuan Yuans, Bashi's, and w/e else I can throw in.

    I love the expendable nature of these units, I just need to make sure I don't get stuck not being able to give orders to those that need them.

    How do you folks handle this?

    Also thanks for taking the time!
     
  2. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I try to mix them up a little bit in the groups. I hate bringing in Irregular troops and then they can't do anything! Below I put the 1YY and Bashi into the main group so that they have orders to do stuff once they are on board.

    The second group is more defensive the second YY is deployed normally and there just to throw smoke on the Rui Shi or Brawler MSR. The Rui Shi is fast and the Liberto is partially up the board already.

    Ikari Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3
    DRUZE Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Panzerfaust / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Panzerfaust / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (E/M and Nimbus) / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)

    BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    BRAWLER Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    TANKŌ (Fireteam: Haris) Blitzen, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 24)

    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    BASHI BAZOUK Combi Rifle, E/Mauler / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 17)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8)
    BRAWLER Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    6 SWC | 299 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  3. GorkkTheOrc

    GorkkTheOrc Active Member

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    @Space Ranger

    Yeah that looks a bit more stable then the list I've been running my first couple of games:

    Second Try
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]4
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 9)
    BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
    TANKŌ (Fireteam: Haris) Blitzen, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 24)
    TANKŌ Flammenspeer, Contender / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    BRAWLER Doctor (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]7 [​IMG]5
    NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    BASHI BAZOUK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 8)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 8)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 8)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  4. East of Irem

    East of Irem Well-Known Member

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    ITS 10 is half done a and I racked up a bit of experience with ikari, I've got a few list building rules to help me out:

    I always bring 2 pools. I try to get a minimum of 4 regular orders in each pool. Split the yuan yuan 2 in each pool (For me in an ITS environment it is always 4 YY, you need things that operate without regular orders) Try not to spend regular orders on them, tempting as it is, its best to let them die in the opponents turn if they can't achieve a potential 2+ kills in active. Placed well the chain rifle offers a chance to remove a piece at your opponents order cost and usually a 2+ order cost to remove without possibility of wound loss.

    I limit myself to one biker in any practical list.

    I don't recommend warcors at all with ikari because for 5-6 more points you get a regular order, flash is devalued post DF and the irregular is worthless when you already have 7 to convert on 4 command tokens.
    Its either cube Jaeger or bashi bazouk, bring 1I wouldn't take both.
    I usually bring at least 4 remotes to do my T1 ARO work they supply a good amount of orders.

    Hope that helps.
     
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  5. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    The list is pretty good. Though personally I'd switch at least Bashi with the Pangguling. The reason being that the Bashi only has one Irregular order. Once on the board he may not have many orders to do something. The YY don't suffer as much because they also have the Impetuous order.

    @East of Irem has some great advice too. I'd trade the Warcore to give the YY DA CCW or try to upgrade the Bashi. Personally I love the Bashi with E/Mauler.

    I've found one problem with the Liberto in Ikari. He's the only Camo in the whole army. After a bit your opponents know exactly what it is and possibly know which is the mine. I now hold him back to "Guard" my Lt. or use mines to cover sides against drop troops.
     
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  6. Raising

    Raising Member

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    We got a lot .of usefull irregular troops. My standard list with ikari is 19-20 units. With 12-14 regular orders and the rest of them irregular

    The core of orders comes from the core + harís (8) then some remotes fugazy . Ruishi. Evo. Pathfinder. (4) sometimes I go harder on remotes with one or two Lu Duan or a krakot(2/1)

    Then irregulars . A must are the yuan yuan (3/4)and joyimbo. Then the liberto/bashi/hacer/warcor

    The point is that being irregular are not a disadvantage if you plan on using the troop anyway.
    -Yuan yuans always have a use for theyr order(atack or smoke).
    -Joyimbo can win the objectives and destroy the enemy if the smoke is covering it's advance. -Liberto place mines, set a supresión fire or deal with some middle field enemy.
    - Bashi as defensive decoy may lose its order but is fine you can use a token for it.
    - Jager /bashi as AD will have a target always (or not deployed).
    - Warcor is cheap and pretty sure will at least make the opponent use a order on her
     
    #6 Raising, Apr 17, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  7. Raising

    Raising Member

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    Compañía Ikari
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GRUPO 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]4
    KEISOTSU (Observ. de Artillería) Fusil Combi / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 10)
    KEISOTSU Fusil Combi / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Sanitario (MediKit) Fusil Combi / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 11)
    BRAWLER Teniente Fusil + Escopeta Lig. / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 16)
    BRAWLER (Visor Multiespectral N2) Fusil de Francotirador MULTI / Pistola, Cuchillo. (1.5 | 28)
    TANKŌ Lanzamisiles / Pistola, Arma CC Monofilo, Arma CC Shock. (1.5 | 32)
    TANKŌ (Fireteam: Haris) Blitzen, Escopeta Ligera / Pistola, Arma CC Monofilo, Arma CC Shock. (0.5 | 24)
    TANKŌ Flammenspeer, Contender / Pistola, Arma CC Monofilo, Arma CC Shock. (0 | 23)
    YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Granadas de Humo, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistola, Arma CC DA. (0 | 21)
    LIBERTO Subfusil, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 8)

    GRUPO 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]5 [​IMG]5
    PANGGULING Hacker (Disp. de Hacker EVO) Pulso Eléctrico. (0.5 | 25)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Pulso Flash, Sniffer / Pulso Eléctrico. (0 | 8)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Fusil Combi, Sniffer / Pulso Eléctrico. (0 | 16)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Pulso Eléctrico. (1.5 | 20)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC Shock. (0 | 8)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC Shock. (0 | 8)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC Shock. (0 | 8)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC Shock. (0 | 8)
    RENEGADO KRAKOT 2 Chain Rifles, Granadas / Pistola, Arma CC DA. (0 | 14)
    WARCOR (Visor 360º) Pulso Flash / Pistola Aturdidora, Cuchillo. (0 | 3)

    5.5 CAP | 300 Puntos

    Abrir en Infinity Army
     
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  8. GorkkTheOrc

    GorkkTheOrc Active Member

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    Big thanks to: @Space Ranger, @East of Irem, and @Raising for all your help and feedback.

    My eyes have been opened to better possibilities by the points brought up by you 3 so far. Things like:

    - Splitting up Yuan Yuans between groups
    - Upgrading a Warcor to a Fugazi
    - Obvious Liberto is obvious
    - At least 4x Regular orders in each pool so irregular units aren't stuck

    There's just a ton of stuff for me to try and process. Also thanks for the list @Raising, feels very much like my play style and load out.


    With answers come more questions now.

    - Do you feel like you always to take the KHD Ninja as a specialist?
    - Do you ever bring some of the expensive units? Al Fasid/Daiyokai?
    - With so many bodies, do you ever bring a Doc or just Keisotsu with a medkit?
    - When taking 3-4x Yuan Yuans is the EVO hacker mandatory?
     
  9. KestrelM1

    KestrelM1 Well-Known Member

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    Given it's our only specialist with Infiltration, it does end up featuring in a lot of ITS lists. Don't discount the FO or AHD profile, though, both offer some potent tools that may help you out. Keep in mind that Bashi Bazouk also have a specialist profile which you can use to start closer to distant objectives.

    I feature the HMG Al Fasid quite a bit, as it's our only source of smoke that's not actively trying to get itself killed. It's a very versatile HI that does a lot of useful things for a reasonable price. It combines very well with the Brawler MSV2 Sniper and the Rui Shi and can punish clustered troops that draw too close.

    The Daiyokai is more niche, as a lot of what it offers can be done by other troops for less. What the Daiyokai can do well is be a big roadblock - the MULTI Marksman Rifle can be set to hold down a fairly large area of board and isn't a slouch in the active turn. That said, with the changes to Total Immunity, Karakuri also fill that role exceptionally.

    I don't generally plan on Doctoring any of the cheap irregular stuff like Desperadoes or Yuan Yuan. But picking up a Tanko ML, Brawler Sniper, or Al Fasid is quite worthwhile and it's usually not hard to find points for a doc.

    It's not worthwhile if all you're doing is assisting Yuan Yuan. It lowers the reliability of the "land anywhere" attack, but you can still walk Yuan Yuan on a board edge and ruin someone's day. Yuan Yuan are also perfectly happy to start in your deployment zone and offer a smokescreen to allow Desperadoes or Yojimbo to advance. If you're also bringing along multiple Remotes to buff with Enhanced Reaction and/or want to make your HI Fireteam extra tough to hack, then the EVO is a worthy inclusion.
     
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  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Glad to help! To your questions
    Not at all. He's great but I like to change it up. Now I'm going to using more Karakuri!
    Al Fasid, Wu Ming, and Karakuri are all great. You pretty much need them in Limited insertion.
    No on doctors unless to keep an expensive piece alive.
    No but highly recommended. It can do so much more than that too. Baggage alone is great. Either scoring points or filling back up on mines, panzerfaust, etc.
     
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  11. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I'm more likely to bring engineers with my list. I love the remote (& karakuri) options and they all have 2 levels of unconscious which makes a lot easier to use.

    PS. The list below has 5 RuiShis on the courtesy list, which really messes up your opponents battle plans. I've got other version that have 8 on the courtesy lists. But I wanted to get 2 karakuris with the new TI rules. Just don't give away the location of your real RuiShis with the Yoazao.

    How many RuiShi
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20)
    NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    KARAKURI Mk12, Chain Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 43)
    KARAKURI Heavy Shotgun, Chain Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 38)
    BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    BRAWLER (Special Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]4
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 8)

    5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Yes having a yaozao ready to go behind a Karakuri would be fantastic. Hold on to some command tokens to re-roll just in case.

    Another funny thing. Note below in the Eng skill, the part in red, that you can fix the Karakuri up to it's 2 STR. With another order, but a regular Doctor can only bring 2 wound up to 1.
    • By declaring Engineer the user may make a Normal WIP Roll to repair the target and have it regain 1 Structure point. The user may declare uses of this Special Skill until the target has recovered its full STR.
     
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  13. Raising

    Raising Member

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    As said before using the Evo is only recommended in case you bring more remotes to the field.that list happens to have 3 more. Bringing the R2 gives me 11 models with R2 in ARO. Después nt forget it enable a good use of satlock and I have grenades already at midfield with the krakot.


    The khd ninja is really good for some missions where being specialist is key. When I started with ikari was automatically included. But now I only use it if it have a task for the misión. KhD is not a flexible tool. A ruishi with marksman 2 is deadly and I get it with the Evo. KHD is not a toolbox hacker.

    Karakuri is neat as a lone figther. But dodge and engineering seems to contradict each other you are reaching fast the point where the karakuri + it's support cost the same as the standard tanko ML core. And remember that you don't need to care about tricky ambition

    Back on topic with the irregular orders:

    If you can use those orders every game with good effect (supporting with smoke/ assault / defensive suppression fire) they are as good as regular orders. Even better because they are cheaper.

    What is the disadvantage of an irregular DA? You are using it anyway.

    Only troops tend to changr its irregular are defensive bashi or Warcor.
     
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  14. GorkkTheOrc

    GorkkTheOrc Active Member

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    Sorry for late response, but thanks everyone for answering more questions! Need to add @KestrelM1 and @Cannon Fodder to the thank list!

    In general sounds like:

    - I should take more Karakuri
    - KHD Ninja isn't the "end all be all"
    - REM's are a thing in Ikari, use them!

    I just got my third game in on Sunday and it was pretty brutal for me. One of those where I was making the best tactical decisions I could (Ru Shi shooting through smoke) and still losing every FtF roll. I'm finding that Ikari isn't super flexible with it's units as some other factions are. But, I also like the challenge of leveraging cheaper units to see what they are capable of!
     
  15. Raising

    Raising Member

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    Rui Shi is a beast but is even better inside ikari because the availability of smoke.
    You said you lose face to face rolls from smoke. Some times you allow the enemy to face your atack with -6 but you have a brutal tactic

    You place the smoke on the enemy half of the table using yuan yuans or bikes. The you walk there and use the ruishi from your oponen control zone. He will be able to dodge with -3 to change facing before you shoot so he won't be able to declare any aro to kill your Rui Shi even when things go wrong.

    Be careful with repeaters, Mines and crazy koalas.
     
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