Invencible Army Vs Military Orders

Not to be sound too grumpy, but this is not really any different from facing e.g. Hassassin Bahram or Bakunin or even JSA. Devil's in the details, there is not clear advantage and they've all got units that get superior gear due to Frenzy or Impetuous that IA doesn't. Try to puncture their fireteams, they're still short on Number 2 and the advantage of having active turn is still much greater than the gear they get for the points they save.

 

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Specifically what does IA do better than MO?

• Better LTs. Knight Commander is a 28pt tax of doesn't do shit and is a potential liability in a fireteam, and their LT orders are worthless if the MO player's NCO gets taken out. The Daoying can provide something of value to the force either through a hacking device or a discounted Minelayer/MSR profile and has a marker state to protect itself.
• Better NCO access. IA has standalone and wildcard NCOs
• More numerous and far cheaper Chain of Command options. MO has only a single 50+ point profile with CoC.
  
• Better tinbots. Pan-O doesn't get -6 tinbots
• Better engineers. IA has multiple linking WIP14 engineer options, including an unhackable wildcard. This is of particular interest to HI links. MO is limited to a single WIP12 retard that can't link with their HI links.
• Better access to Tactical Awareness. MO doesn't get this skill outside of taking TAGs and they can't abuse it in links. MO can indeed put 14 models in a list easily, IA can easily play 17-18 orders in a 15 model list and run every single order through fireteams.
• Better airborne deployment. The Liu Xing is better than the Santiago at this (and the Crusader is pretty crap TBH).
  
• Far more flexible fireteams and a much bigger and deeper roster of wildcards. IA is easily in the top 3 sectorials for most flexible fireteams in the game.

On that last point:


GROUP 1 10 1
LÉI GŌNG Shock Marksman Rifle, Nanopulser, Blitzen / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 34)
ZHANSHI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
KOKRAM FTO Feuerbach, Chain-colt, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 42)
CHIEF JEONG K1 Combi Rifle, AP Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
HǍIDÀO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49)
SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)
CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

This is a combat group where 9 out of 10 models can be part of the same core fireteam.

 

This was on my mind yesterday, and on consideration I don't think that MO is in aggregate better at IA than being IA, or whatever. MO does have some more optimized profiles, and it can use a bunch of them without compromising its own theme, and I think that's what caught me up in wondering about the issue.

For example, IA can spam Tactical Awareness which is frickin' awesome, but doing so requires taking multiple Shang-Ji (expensive), a Zuyong HMG (who feels a bit redundant if you already have a Shang-Ji HMG/TA/Tinbot), a Zuyong Combi tinbot (who is bringing a weapon you already have plenty of and a tinbot you might already have), or a Guijia.

Taking a wider variety of weapons or troop types means you don't get to play the TA card as much. A list with multiple Zhencha or Liu Xing or Hulang—or a combination of those—rapidly becomes "I should have just run vanilla Yu Jing." You can bring one or two, but IA sectorial design just isn't friendly to versatile list styles, and it really encourages you to play like every mission is Annihilation for the first couple turns. I keep trying to use IA to "play the mission" and 4 times out of 5 I would have been way, way, way, way better off running vanilla.

I think some element of the current play style is great, I just think it's calibrated a bit too far toward tying order spam to just a couple of troop types in a sectorial where everybody's expensive. If I had a chance to tweak the sectorial I'd add some profiles specific to IA that bring in a little more weapon variety, and give TA or NCO to a few units that don't have it currently.

I'd like a few options to make TA slightly more available, and some loadouts to make the signature Zuyong link more versatile than combis and HMGs. The two Zuyong Tac Aware profiles work better in Dahshat and seem calibrated for N3 when Shang Ji weren't a sectorial mainstay. This is a troop type with only five weapon loadouts across thirteen profiles. Zhanshi have six weapon loadouts across nine profiles. Come on!

I'd give the Tinbot TA Zuyong something other than a Combi Rifle, probably a Boarding Shotgun. In a perfect world we'd get something like a Zuyong TA panzerfaust + SMG loadout, or maybe a Combi + Grenade Launcher profile similar to the Zhanshi GL. I'd like a Zuyong specialist with a primary weapon that isn't a Combi Rifle, give the FO a MMR instead of a Combi, maybe.

A Zhencha profile with TA wouldn't go amiss. I'm sure it'd end up with a combi rifle, but I might take it anyway. It's already kind of spendy, and can't link, so they aren't the most efficient use of TA, but it would be useful. A specialist operative with TA, combi or breaker combi, light shotgun, and AP mines would be good without messing up the sectorial's limitation on access to midfield repeaters.

TA on the existing Liu Xing specialist multi rifle profile would probably be the right fit. TA has diminishing returns for the Liu Xing as a balancing factor if you don't bring it on in your first turn, but it could be a lifesaver for late-game objective runs when your order pool has taken a beating. I don't think it's reasonable to put on every profile, but right now the hacker is sort of a better specialist than the specialist profile, and giving the latter TA would be great.

A NCO Guijia profile would be fantastic. There's an NCO Squalo, so it's not like NCO on a TAG is out of bounds. It's a bit niche, but it also makes sense as a sectorial-specific profile.

I also think IA is missing out on some additional weapon loadouts for the Daoying, our only non-character MI. I'd love to see a FD+8" Daoying with Multi Marksman Rifle, AP mines, and Minelayer as a non-LT loadout. I really want a Daoying character, maybe a Hacker with KHD and Fairy Dust. If there's any sectorial outside Steel Phalanx that ought to have alternate sources of Fairy Dust it's the Invincibles.

The Multi HMG Yan Huo is in a weird spot, in active it's worse than a Shang Ji AP HMG and in ARO it's a bit worse than a linked Yan Huo ML or Zuyong ML. Solo it's just not great at all. It needs something to make it good in a link or solo, and TA might be the right choice for it as well.

Anyway, yeah. I'd love to see some tweaks around the edges—give the Red Fury Haidao MSV1 or mimetism-3 or something to get our attention, that kind of thing. But overall, now that the initial OMG NEW PROFILES IN MO has lost its edge, I don't think that IA has been eclipsed in its role as premier super-linkable HI order spam. I would just like it to retain that edge with a wider variety of troop combinations.

 

After seeing some of the fireteam insanity that spawned out from CJC and Bahram I was a little concerned the MO rework was going to get wildcards and TacAw out the ass but CB were more or less very restrained this time around.

 

We have a TAG that can Duo with a number of great wildcards that give him an advantage. Tinbots, Repeaters, Engineers right next to him, even a hacker that can kill the enemy hackers. I think this is pretty big advantage.

GŪIJIĂ MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower / DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 82)
GŪIJIĂ PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
SHÀNG JÍ MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 38)
SHÀNG JÍ Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 44)
SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49)
HǍIDÀO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
HǍIDÀO (Engineer, Deactivator) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
CHIEF JEONG Combi Rifle, Light Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 30)
CHIEF JEONG K1 Combi Rifle, AP Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 12)
KOKRAM FTO MULTI Rifle(+1 Dam), Chain-colt, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
KOKRAM FTO Feuerbach, Chain-colt, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 42)

 

Well some of the MO units are as optimised as they can be. And there are quite few of them. Coupled with decently flexible fireteams this looks like good sectorial. But IA has some things that MO could dream about. Mainly NCO wildcards in paintrains, and good units with TA in paintrain. But looking at Teutons i can only say one thing: Give Hulang Frenzy. If a freaking God loving Knight has full on impetuous then surely a guy who is military only becouse he was a bloodthirsty thug before being recruited should have at least frenzy. And the best part is that with FD profile in IA and Vanilla it wouldnt even be OP, Im guessing more Hulang are actually played solo without cheesing frenzy in fireteam. And to make it even more fair instead of making Hulang cheaper make him better: 13BS, 13PH, eclipse grenades MA3 or 4 and EM weapon instead of Mono. Also make Zhencha a little more expensive and give him 13BS, HI with 12BS just bothers my OCD. Also Yaofang being THE ONLY YJ unit with 12WIP is annoying, could we please pay 1 point more for 13WIP? xD

 

Sirs. Party members, Citizens of the great Empire State.
We have been overwhelmed by the irruption of an army that wants to play on our line.
But we can, we MUST show that our forces have the capabilities to overcome!
Do not be carried away by the novelty.
Do not be carried away by fear.
Our soldiers are capable.
Our soldiers are strong!
We will carry this onslaught over, like the blows they have given us over and over again!
WE ARE THE EMPIRE STATE !!
WE ARE THE DEFENDERS OF YU JING !!
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE ENEMY OVERCOMES US !!
WE HAVE A MAJOR FORCE !!
AND IT IS OUR UNIT !!!
The front doesn't matter!
It doesn't matter where we fight !!
IT MATTERS HOW WE FIGHT !!!
We have the resources!
We have our troops !!
but more important than this ...
WE HAVE THE WILL TO FIGHT !!
THEY WILL NEVER DEFEAT US IF WE KEEP FIGHTING !!
ALONE WE ARE STRONG!!!
TOGETHER WE'RE INVINCIBLE!!!!!

 

Something else I noticed is the Knight Commander pays the full 4 points for LT2 like Kornak, Hector, and the Avatar do. Daoying profiles pay either 0 or 3 points, they get a hand adjusted discount on it.

 

Yes, like a few others for LT-adjacent skills such as the LT+NCO units in CA or Adil Crane LT

 

I was initially annoyed to see the Knight Commander + Sepulchre combo cutting Daoying Mowang's grass, but less so now. They are Fugly compared to their Yu Jing equivalents at the very least, and the Daoying's camo is way more useful than the Knights Linkability.

Mainly jealous of all the releases they get. Please sell us Shang Ji box, SMG Hulang and Multi Rifle Liu Xing please.

 

HellLois said Shang Ji will be coming soon but they make me feel like that will be it for a while. They should come out with Liu Xing with no gun just so he can be an easy proxy for Spitfire and BSG as well. I was surprised they didn't do similar with the Hulang. If they had given him a double handed CC weapon, he could have been easily used for either profile. I sadly don't have high hopes for an Action Pack with new figures like they did for MO. It will likely be a re-pack like Haqq and Aleph. Red Veil+Beyond RV (sans the Zuyong, Daofei, and Hsien) + Yan Huo HRMC (since they feel the need to put a big thing in)

 

June is already spoiled (Shaolin Blister et al.), is it July or August when they Drop Crimson Stone or whatever CorRIGGEDidor vs KosmoFLOP is called? If it's July, then we can expect Shang Ji in our hand in September at the earliest. Who knows, I might be able to reenter my own country by then.

As for what's in the box, let's hope to high heaven that the unforgivably bad Jujak link rules in WBA was not imposed to justify diluting the Shang Ji box with them (or depending on your perspective, diluting the Jujak box with Shang Ji).

 

Crimson Stone lines up with Gen Con so it'll be an August or September release, depending if they delay the box to match up with the delayed convention or not.

 

Ah, then there is hope to see them in July.

 

I'm crossing my fingers for HMG, HRL, Multi-rifle, Tinbot.

Edit: I doubt a Jujak just because they can be used by IA as well.

 

I'd like to see something close to the original Shang Ji pose.

Really one of the most beautiful models ever created.

 

Ah, a miniature version of perfection..

 

I'm still using it and will for a long time! It's still a great miniature. Sure size wise he's smaller than some but that gives him a better profile! ;)