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Interaction between Coordinated Order and Fireteam BS ARO (shoot+smoke)

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Elessar, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Elessar

    Elessar 80stalgic console cowboy

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    Sorry to bother if it was answered before but I struggled with searching results. So picture this:

    Two Panzerfaust Daylami are coordinating a BS attack against an Alguacil HMG, the latter is a member in a Fireteam along Lupe Balboa, both have LoF to the coordinating Daylami and vice versa.

    Fireteam choose BS as ARO: Alguacil HMG as per rules ought to choose one of the two pesky haqqislamites as target for both her rolls, instead Lupe Baboa wisely toss two smoke grenades in order to hinder Daylamis' LOF.

    So without any doubt smoke tossing rolls would be FtF if the Daylami had aimed at Lupe, however what about this case? Does the rolls for the smoke grenades tossed by Lupe to hamper LOF interact with the rolls against the Alguacil HMG, so for Balboa these are FtF or a normal rolls?

    thanks lads
     
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    No. As per the FAQ.

    Note that Lupe's ARO is in addition to the Alg HMG's ARO (either Dodge or BS Attack back).
     
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  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I think technically the roll would be FtF for Lupe, but only for the puposes of laying down the templates (i.e. if Lupe doesn't win all FtF rolls the smoke doesn't go down).
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Nah, it's not FTF because the Daylamis aren't affecting Lupe. Both parties need to affect the other to trigger a FTF.
     
  5. Elessar

    Elessar 80stalgic console cowboy

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    so am I to infer that the fact that they are both in the same fireteam does not count as an exception to the general rule?

    indeed IIRC rules say that every single fireteam member has his single ARO provided that all the fireteam members perform the same ARO even if against different targets
     
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Lupe's smoke toss is blocking LoF to the Daylami's target. Same reasoning behind using smoke to protect Lupe herself.
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Remember, throwing Smoke is a BS Attack.

    So in this case both Lupe and the Alg HMG declare 'BS Attack' and remain part of the Fireteam.

    Alternatively, Lupe can declare BS Attack with her Smoke Grenades and the Alg HMG can Dodge. Depending on what the other AROs from the Fireteam are will determine what is the Fireteam ARO and consequently which trooper drops from the Fireteam.
     
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  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The Panzerfausts are not affecting Lupe. So while Lupe affects the Daylamis the Daylamis do not affect Lupe. So no FTF exists.

    It's the same as if Lupe fires one of her Panzerfausts at a Daylami. It'd be a normal roll.
     
  9. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Inane.Imp literally quoted the FAQ where it says this doesn't work.

    Y u troll?
     
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  10. ev0k

    ev0k Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the smoke only effective at the end of the order, so that it doesn't block lof before next order ?
     
  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But if the Daylamis where actually Hafza HRLs and the Template caught Lupe then she would be affected by the attack and it would be a FTF. I was keeping that interaction in mind as I answered. The pertinent question for determining if it's a FTF or not is whether or not Lupe is affected by the attack: whereas the fact that the LOF is only really blocked at resolution has no bearing either way on @Hecaton's question.
     
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  12. ev0k

    ev0k Well-Known Member

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    Yes, just figured that out indeed. I just need a bit more coffee this morning...
     
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  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Eh, I think that's enough to be considered "affecting." Should get an FAQ (or even better a rules revision).
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I wasn't arguing that Lupe could protect the other Alguacile in that order though.
     
  15. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    How the actual fuck are the Daylamis affecting Lupe?
     
  16. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Panzerfaust do not have a template so this is cut and dry, as opposed to the other long thread about a similar situation with an impact template. Perhaps that was the confusion.
     
  17. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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    Yeah this is really clear cut, the rules unfortunatly don't define "effect" but there have been only two ways CB has interpreted it.
    1. Inflict wounds or damage
    2. Impose a state

    The Daylami is doing none of those to the Lupe. So a face to face roll would not be triggered because they are not effecting each other. The only other way to trigger a face to face roll is to meet one of the exceptions to that general rule.

    Both dodge and reset specifically list triggering a face to face roll as an effect even though you are not effecting the other model.

    Similarly smoke ammo can trigger a face to face roll if all the requirements are met, and again here Lupe clearly doesn't meet all the requirements. (Specifically she is not the target of the attack, and depending on where she places the smoke it also may not block LoF to her).
     
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