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Infinity: Code One

Discussion in 'News' started by colbrook, Oct 5, 2019.

  1. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    So there may be two communities. The "full blown" game which will consist of everyone... now. Then there may be a second group that plays the "bridge" version. Group 2 will consist of players advancing to more and those who will never do so.
     
  2. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    A "split" implies that the current community will be divided. I don't really think there is any real danger of this.

    While more accurate, this comment obscures how these two communities will probably form and who will make them up.

    This is the most likely scenario. There are very few people who currently play the game that will move "down" to Code 1 as their go-to system of choice. Based on what we know, Code 1 is built to bring new players into the game... essentially the Operation: somethingsomething rules fleshed out to all armies. If those players never move up to N4, then the community hasn't shrunk. If they do, then the community is growing faster than it would have without it.

    Perhaps I'm being too rosy in my optimism, but I really don't think these "split community" arguments hold any water.
     
  3. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Let me spin a tale for you, of the "Narrative", "Open", and "Matched" Play systems for another game...
    A vocal minority insisted that "Open" and "Narrative" can never be truly balanced but "Matched" play inevitably will be.

    Because of the fact that said vocal minority continually trashed on the other two ways, threw petulant little temper tantrums, etc--"Matched" play has become the de facto thing that people aim for with pick up games.

    I fully expect the same thing to happen here, because we still have people repeating the lie that is "It's not your list, it's you"--and the message that the vocal minority here for Infinity has is amplified by CB itself.
     
  4. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    You're ignoring that, currently, one of the biggest complaints people have over staying with Infinity is that the game is effectively a "lifestyle" game rather than a "hobby" game.

    You can't drop Infinity if you want to play it, even for a few months.
     
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  5. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    But those people will quit if they can't keep up with said "lifestyle", or realize that that's only true if you plan to play competitively. The community was going to lose those players anyway. "Splitting" them off into Code 1 is, for CB and the infinity community as a whole, better than losing them completely. Just last night I played someone who was rusty as all get out, but we both enjoyed the game and talked tactics during the debrief afterwards.

    Perhaps I'm a unicorn in this, but I've only every played in one tournament, and it consisted of mostly newer players (when I was also fairly new). Even still, I play consistently and enjoy the game for its basic differences with other games (which, BTW can be taught quickly and consist of about 70% of the game): Order system, AROs, and FtF rolls. I have never felt like I needed to play every week to enjoy the game, and I've taken multi-month breaks before, only to come back, get trounced a few times and then get back in the groove.
     
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  6. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Every game I've ever played or even read about has had this sort of multi viewpoint.

    So we have this now. With ITS being the one true way to play Infinity and it's very very difficult to get anyone to even try the two or three other offerings. Happened in every other game that has has "tournament play". Playing those and preparing for those dominated so much time nothing else was left.

    I'll take issue with this. Like the often derided "Play like you've got a pair" it's taken way too literally.

    Back in those early days of Warmachine the standard of comparison was, of course, 40k. Which, at that time, mostly consisted of lining up all your big guns and blasting at their line of big guns until someone "won". So yeah. Warmachine was definitely rewarded actually getting off one's ass and seizing your victory. Then people decided it meant you didn't have to be civil.

    "It's not your list, it's you." is a very valid line. This game is note "perfectly balanced". But it's margin for screwing that part up is well under my stupid deployment choices, not sticking to my mission play, and the fact my dice hate me with a burning passion. Then to what models I brought vs the ones my opponent brings. It's not the sole criteria by a longshot.

    Back to semi-on topic. I think the introduction will merely create a formal division in how people play instead of sussing it out for a few months.

    *Not picking on you kanluwen, you just have the clearest opposition. :)
     
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  7. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, the Kill Team/40k/Apocalypse split hasn't resulted in a splitting of the 40k community. People play KT if they don't have a lot of time but want a game, and play 40k or Apocalypse if they do have time.

    Even if it does end up with 2 communities, I'm fairly confident that everyone currently on the forums will be playing N4, and the newcomers will be playing Code1 at least to start.
     
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  8. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. I'll likely only learn enough about Code One to help run demo games and I'm sure people who I'm demoing will graduate to N4 eventually. Much the same way I do with Red Veil and the like.
     
  9. holycannoli

    holycannoli Dancing to Kazak Kalinka

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    While I can see the point of gw's different modes of play I don't think it's going to pan out quite the same. Let me explain.

    I don't think I've seen a single game of open play. As this quite frankly is good for the pre-boxed forces in say a start set, "we just have this here box, so lets play." That's likely because my gaming community is veteran enough to have existing model collections, and so they can bring players at that level. But I'm here to more talk about narrative play vs matches.

    In my observations and experience narrative play actually took root with the more tight knit/persornal groups because of it's focus on the scenario side of the game. Which usually means that there's pre planning or communication as for the setup and theme before lists are even written. Even then points are often used. Matched play became the defacto way to play because it's concrete rules meant that any two random players that show up at a shop are going to have a solid baseline what to expect rule wise. Narrative is home to house rules and flavor matches.

    I don't think the code 1 and n4 are going to be subject to this quite as much as it's got a slightly different goal at purely being a get started ruleset. Like people have been saying I think it'll be closer to the operation _____ experience with more variety. I think it'll work out for players that want to start getting into the game being drawn in by a certain faction or wants to buy one of the small starter box vs having to have a partner to split an operation with. For example in my experience more than one player wanted to start with Tohaa and their sheer learning curve gave them a bad time. C1 can really give the new players a lower price point (1 starter box vs an operation you can't split for whatever reason.) And more choice seeing as they can choose whatever faction appeals to them, but with rules meant to be played at an entry level.

    Easier bar for entry is always nice for gaming communities, especially when it comed to our wallets. Killteams have been wonderful to get people rolling dice with a single box vs being told to buy hundreds of dollars of books and minis before they can field even small force. Infinity doesn't have nearly the bar of entry as larger scale games. But a single 35-40 dollar box is a pretty low price of entry for a new player, and can make it an easier sell. For all we know it can be smaller scale on top of simpler rules. Similar to the recon unofficial ruleset which gained a lot of popularity in my neck of the woods for newer players just starting their trip through the human sphere.

    The one hiccup I can see with this plan is full blown tournament support for it. Seems like more of an escalation league thing to me.
     
    #149 holycannoli, Dec 8, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  10. Silas7

    Silas7 New Member

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    Does it really matter if the player base is split if Code1 brings in more players overall?
     
  11. Pen-dragon

    Pen-dragon Deva

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    Well this just proves a point, there was not two communities, everyone united on trashing "Open" and "Narrative". In more seriousness, the problem with 'Open', 'Narrative' and 'Matched' play was not that there were different rules to play the same game world, but that two of the rules options were actually pretty bad. (possibly all three were bad, leading to a loss of dominance, and the growth of rival wargame systems, but that is a discussion worthy of its own thread, and one I would hesitate to enter.)

    I have less experience with 'Kill Team' but it seems to have been received much better, than 'Open' and 'Narrative'. Perhaps because the rules actually work.

    The real danger might be that Code1 might eclipse full infinity. If you can get 90% of the tactical complexity, with only 50% of the rules, Code1 might end up being the better game. But if that is actually the case, I don't see it as a loss.

    My opinion is that this will be less of a split of a community, and more of a growing a second cross-over community. However it will all come down to the execution. I think it can succeed, we will just have to wait and see if it will succeed.
     
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  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    *IF* people who currently play N3 move to playing Code1, *AND IF* new players do not move to N4, then that would be bad for N4 players. Good for CB, due to increased demand for their stuff, though.

    But if N3 players move to N4, and most new players just start with Code1 and later move up to N4, then that will be good for everyone.



    That is a very valid point.

    I don't think we're going to see that happen (at least, I really hope we don't), but if that does end up being the case I'm going to stick with Code1 and call it a win!
     
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  13. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    For the record:
    The only difference between the three game variations(Open, Narrative, Matched) is the way army construction worked(Narrative gave a basic rundown for each mission, Open and Matched used a similar system but Matched encouraged you to play Battleforged to avoid penalties) and the mission types used(narrative/open used the same missions and matched play has their own).

    People made a big hooplah about "Power" vs "Points", when you basically got told in the book to "talk to your opponent ahead of time" as to which one gets used(for those unaware, "Power" is a metric that is based upon the points cost of a unit with the most expensive upgrades possible). It's unfortunately an ignored mechanism, but the whole reasoning behind it was to address the complaints about AoS at launch with "no balancing mechanism!".

    Oh that warm reception died as soon as Rogue Trader and the Commanders expansion hit. For whatever reason, people seem to have a hard time understanding "OPTIONAL RULES" mean you don't need them.
    Agreed with regards to this.
    My reasoning for thinking it would be a split is, frankly, the fractured nature to begin with. ITS is a bit of a wedge to start with, adding another is asking for potential trouble.
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It would help if ITS was more accessible and didn't have missions that are seemingly designed to confuse new players, like Looting & Sabotaging.
     
  15. bona

    bona Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully when they re-write the rules for N4 it is organized in such a way that N4 is word for word Code One plus Advanced Rules.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  16. DeltaDrop

    DeltaDrop Member

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    In the best situation players will not need to 'unlearn' anything when making the transition for C1 to N4
     
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  17. bona

    bona Well-Known Member

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    I agree. If C1 was being written to augment N3, there would have to be actual differences. Since it is being written as part of N4, I bet there will be no unlearning, just learn the additional advanced rules.


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  18. bona

    bona Well-Known Member

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    I think that there are three pillars to the N4 project. 1. Streamline the rules with clearer definitions. 2. Provide an on-ramp for new players / game space for more casual players. 3. Provide a mechanism to streamline miniature SKUs / simplify for store owners. All three pillars are extremely important to CB and Core One addresses two items. Core One is the solution to 2 & 3 and enabled by 1.

    Because all the rules are to be streamlined, N4 can consist of Code One plus the advanced rules. There should be no rules to unlearn when moving from Code One to N4, just added rules or extra options in the various game phases.

    The starter boxes will be rebranded as Code One so I think that all Code One armies will be sectionals. This would minimize the number of units a beginner needs to learn to play an army. The big question is links. If links are included, I don’t think it will be beyond three man, and will probably have no mixed links. The Core One link combinations would be defined separately from N4. Similarly the units skill sets, equipment, and point cost will be different.




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  19. Geodron

    Geodron Well-Known Member

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    If the starters got rebranded as code one then code one couldn't be sectorial based. Pano and YJ starters are mixed sectorial.

    .....unless this new box discontinues icestorm, red veil, the pano and yj starters and creates and makes them sectorial focused. Which I guess is not impossible.
     
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  20. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    Like, Code One ist set just for Vanilla against Vanilla battles and N4 introduces Sectorials including fireteam rules (amongst other "advanced" rules)?

    Sounds interesting.
     
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