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Infinity: Code One

Discussion in 'News' started by colbrook, Oct 5, 2019.

  1. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    An aditional benefit for Corvus, the players and the stores (so, a win-win-win situation), is that Code1 could help with the SKU's problem. With Code 1 products, Corvus could release more boxes of mixed troopers that are simple path for expanding a Faction (like the current "Beyond" boxes), a product that will appeal both to new players of Infinity/Code1 or to veteran players branching to another Faction. And for small stores it'll be easier to start stocking Infinity with a limited selection of "essential" boxes.

    Of course, this is just my guess, based on things Bostria has said on interviews.
     
    #101 Abrilete, Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Personally, I think they should sell 200pts "starting boxes" for new players, with the same number of models. Since Code One troops will have differnt statlines and gear/skills than regular Infinity, this allows a perfect oppotunity to have things squared. Then, as Abrilete says, a box to expand what the first box offered, in this case another 200 points so the player can make his own lists choosing up to 300pts between 2 boxes.
     
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  3. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    That's pretty close to the current Operation & Beyond boxes, which you can almost guarantee will all be C1 compatible.
    Bostria was pretty explicit in the interview that having a smaller "core" or "essentials" range for stores that don't want to/can't stock everything was a big benefit of C1, and also why they're identifying C1 compatible minis on the packaging.
     
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  4. node_runner

    node_runner Member

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    As a casual player I'm really excited. The existing starter sets are nice, but the tutorial missions have very little replay value other than the last mission, and that's just not enough. I would love to see C1 offer something to compete with the new Warhammer WarCry game, which is honestly a really slick package. The WarCry starter set has a random scenario generator that works quite well and offers endless replayability out of that one box. And it's the first starter box that I've ever seen which really lives up to the promise of "this is all you really need". It has two full warbands, full terrain, full rules, full missions, all the dice you need, and all the tokens you need.

    With the higher quality cardboard terrain that CB has recently put out, I think C1 would be a great opportunity to Infinity accessible and really enticing to a larger audience. If they could sell a starter set with a full set of nice cardstock terrain, two full armies, stat cards (casual players should not be expected to print out army sheets from the internet), and nice tokens (not like the garbage that came in the Operation: packs, but the new hotness), they'll have an offering with really good value.
     
  5. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    There is always a newbie somewhere... this will be impossible to cater to everyone. Sure warcors and community players can always play some Code One games but I can totally see it be a splinter in the community, depending on how simplified and "fun" it is compared to the regular experience.
    In some universe, I could even see it being better than the more complex system, but in this case I doubt it since it will take away whole dimensions of the game (which will in turn make it less cinematic as well).
    Also, the additional effort of play testing and balancing two systems for the same market looks like a bad way to spend resources. I can see that they are desperately trying to get new people in, but at what cost?

    A secret hope is that the effort of developing a simpler system might open some new paradigm...and we end up with an elegant single system.
     
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  6. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    Sounds reasonable... I think they should not try to catch the much as possible of market. Infiinty is not going to fit everybody taste.

    I think there is a nice example on a market with splitting the system - SAGA. I don't know how it worked out for rest of the world, I only observed what was going on in my local community. In latest edition of SAGA they added magic variant, classical fantasy. There was lots of excitement at the beginning. But lately, after people bought rules, played for sometime... those who liked Dark Age saga, continued to play Dark age, those who liked Medivial Saga - continued. But almost no one switched to fantasy (though they do have miniatures from WFB, Kings of War) ... maybe because kings of war\ age of sygmar\ some other system did fantasy better, in a usual way people get use to. I've noticed no newbies gathering up to start playing fantasy SAGA massively.

    So, to sum up, maybe some of people who writes the Inifinty rules, should try to actually play the game, play it seriously, visit several tourneys with own army, get kicked_ass, to finally understand what people are annoyed by, why the game is in forever beta-version and never played by 100% according to rules and that no splitting is going to solve Infinity learning curve.
     
    #106 sorniak, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  7. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, hopefully there is a third box to step beyond those.



    That would be really good for people.

    The entire Infinity range is freaking huge. Nearly 500 items, according to CB's online store. And the problem is, no player really needs more than one of anything, so Infinity doesn't necessarily turn over very fast.
     
  8. Alfy

    Alfy Well-Known Member

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    Ooohhh, that sounds like a really cool idea! I mean, I understand making your own list and hence getting the minis for it is a big part of the fun, but I like the idea of a larger progression before being thrown to the wolves!

    Quick aside: one thing I really found smart with the Operation: X and Beyond boxes is that the models themselves increase in complexity. The Operation minis come in at most three/four pieces, and the poses are relatively standard; things get more complicated with the Beyond box, with more pieces and more dynamism. I found this progression to be a really smart thing (coming from GW, it can be a rough transition, especially with the more recent press-fit models being so easy to deal with).
     
  9. Pen-dragon

    Pen-dragon Deva

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    Cautiously optimistic.

    I wonder how often the rules will be 'bastardized'

    "Ok, we are going to play N4, but with C1 hacking rules." Or some similar mish-mash.
     
  10. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    if anyone tries to pull this kind of thing just tell them no, it's C1 or N4. The game is complex enough as it is and peopel are still confusing N3 and N2 rules, you don't need add more to that to further muddy it up.
     
  11. ev0k

    ev0k Well-Known Member

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    Totally second that, it's either one system or another, but no custom tailored rule set !
     
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  12. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    If they put some extra bits in some of the boxes, people might start to need more than one box of the same.

    In a competitive environment I would agree with you, but for people trying to switch from C1 to N4, that might be a good way to learn hacking without having to learn all the extra rules in one try
     
    #112 Armihaul, Oct 23, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  13. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    That's fine and something I may do when teaching the game. My read of the initial comment was your normal players rocking up on game night and essentially cherry picking a rules set.
     
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  14. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    if its a casual game, why not? in a tournament, league or something competitive, that can bring lot of unbalance, but in a casual game, agreed by both players, I think it is a way to break routine an try different things
     
  15. ev0k

    ev0k Well-Known Member

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    I think that is already what's happening in casual game : houseruling some obscure aspects of the N3, no ?
     
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  16. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Very true!


    Would be nice. We are seeing a few models with arm-swaps in there. Goes all the way back to the Guarda de Assalto, then the Myrmette Officer, and then some S5 guys.


    Nah, works better to pick one area of the rules to play and then focus in on that.

    Build a list with all the CC monsters in it and no heavy weapons, throw down (that was actually quite fun with JSA v Greeks!). Do the same with hacking. No heavy weapons (well, maybe on REMs), all the various hacking devices and repeaters/pitchers your faction can bring.
     
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  17. armazingerz

    armazingerz Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a huge opportunity. I wrote to CB my concerns about Infinity complexity 3 months after I started playing with Opertion Red Veil, and through the time my opinion has become stronger. I remember I told them "between Red Veil and N3 there is an abysm of rules where the newbie doesn't know where to start".

    Nevertheless, later on I realized the problem was not just making your way to N3, the problem was N3 itself and there is objective facts that prove it: top players and referees failing to apply the rules even at the Interplanetarios, an insane number of markers, an insane number of weapons and ammo with irrelevant differences, an insane number of rules with irrelevant differences like the 6 ranks of AD, a half of the profiles being barely used because of similarities / corner case profiles / just bad profiles, there are countless unpredicted interactions between the rules, etc... There is bloat everywhere.

    So in my opinion two things are required to make N4 a success:
    1- C1 must be serious, must be more than a demo version, it needs a huge effort to make it a well designed and balanced game, easy to learn, easy to play, but still with a lot of tactical choices
    2- N4 must be simplier than N3, I'm sure Infinity can keep a 90% of its variety, difficulty and complexity (the funniest 90%) taking away or simplifying 50% of the rules and profiles. Newbies won't ever learn or stick to some sort of a N3 game.

    Me and my friends quit playing Infinity since January. As customers we raised our voice far earlier not buying, so I see this as a huge opportunity to come back, but I know we won't at any cost, there is a scenario where we definitely won't: if C1 is not a good game and N4 retains the N3 faults and bloat we won't play any of them.
     
    #117 armazingerz, Oct 24, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  18. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    Just out of curiosity - do you play any other scirmish with you friends and why, after Infinity failed? Might be helpful )
     
  19. ev0k

    ev0k Well-Known Member

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    Wait, whaaaat ??
     
  20. armazingerz

    armazingerz Well-Known Member

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    No. we have filled the gap playing online Conan Exiles and 7 days to die. Excellent games both of them

    We considered some of them: Malifaux, Kill team, Frostgrave, Bolt Action... but they looked expensive / not tactical enough... and we were frustrated, despite we came from games like WFB

    I meant, top ITS players
     
    #120 armazingerz, Oct 24, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019