1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Infinity: Code One

Discussion in 'News' started by colbrook, Oct 5, 2019.

  1. Red_Five

    Red_Five Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    9
    Bio Weaponry is not really that advanced. It is just a type of weapon that attacks BTS rather than armor. Super easy to explain. Some of its gets a bit fiddly but I don't see it as being that complex.


    Climbing Plus is easy to visualize and explain as it really boils down to "can climb more easily and can shoot while climbing".

    Super Jump definitely is an advanced skill because it is so fiddly.

    If I were a betting man, I would bet that Total Immunity is going to be simplified to "immune to weapon special ammunition".

    Also, some units can be more complex but it would only be a minority (maybe 1 or 2).

    That is why I think CB would have to go with the hand curated core for the various factions (like X-Wing), and then make a real concerted effort to release at least one new model for each faction each season (or at least more regularly than they are managing currently).

    I suppose C1 could be like Kill Team. If that is true, then I pretty much have zero interest. The game is already a skirmish game. I don't need it to be more skirmish-y.

    EDIT: Having siad that, I could see the benefits of C1 being a half-sized version of normal Infinity, so you play one a 24x24 in. (or maybe 30x30 in.) board and play with the equivalent of 150 points. That would definitely make it easier for new players to play, who may not have access to a 4x4 board but could easily find the space to play a 24x24 in. (or slightly larger) board).
     
    #41 Red_Five, Oct 7, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
    Pen-dragon and Vtarin like this.
  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,004
    Likes Received:
    9,435
    Yeah, if Code1 is that simplified, it's really only going to be good for introducing new players and getting them into tournaments for a couple years. If you can get them into some for-fun-only N4 games, specifically showing off the cool things that aren't allowed in Code1, it shouldn't be hard to draw the new players into N4.
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  3. bladerunner_35

    bladerunner_35 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    122
    For me the essence of Haqq is more about asymmetrical trades and cheap irregular skirmishers.

    Although I grant you that Mutts are both faction defining and a pain to use ruleswise.

    I guess it all depends on your point of view but I’d say you can boil down the core experience of most other factions without advanced rules save perhaps Nomads (hacking) or Tohaa (linkteams) and maybe CA (just weird shit).
     
  4. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    I'd probably argue this has actually shifted a bit since the updates that came along with RTF. Yes, we do asymmetrical trades better than most, but Ariadna is always a strong contender and I don't see a whole lot of fluff/color in the feature. I would rather argue that incredible doctors and their super-soldier counterparts are what brought a lot of people to Haqq in the first place.

    As you say, it comes down to opinion in large part. I'm basing a lot of my argument on the fluff provided by CB and the fact many companies (like CB) use primer fluff to help new players identify with and pick a faction, rather than purely describing the outcome of that play-style. Furthermore, a lot of what makes haqq great at producing those asymmetrical trades are the "extra" rules beyond what you see in something like Red Veil.
     
  5. bladerunner_35

    bladerunner_35 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    122
    Sure. I can see that. For me Haqq has always been characterised by the lowly Hunzakut and I have been playing Onyx while Ramah was released. It is a bit of a new faction with all the latest bling.
     
    oldGregg likes this.
  6. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    Yeah I absolutely love the hunzakut! But that's actually another good point ... I would have considered her a faction-defining unit for a while. Then we saw her become a keystone piece in Druze, followed by playing a major role in Dashat. To top it off, plenty of factions have recently received new profiles/buffs to skirmishing/midfield units. While these don't necessarily compete with the hunzakut in a bad way, I have seen of of the optimized midfield profiles having a pretty big impact on the amount of hunzakut and how those are played. (In my local metas). Long story short; there're more units that can successfully deal with the hunzakut, leading to a reach for more midfield punch from units like the nahab, namurr, etc. I'm not saying the unit will go away, I just think it screams "Haqqislam" a little less loudly. (But I still love it)!
     
    #46 oldGregg, Oct 7, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
    bladerunner_35 likes this.
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,817
    Likes Received:
    4,659
    It needs to be costed much more highly, then, and not be put on units with NWI, multiple wounds, and Berserk.

    It also shouldn't give the bearer immunity to nonlethal ammo.
     
  8. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    2,666
    As a Tohaa player, I appreciate your optimism :p
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,438
    Likes Received:
    7,996
    No no, Kill Team in terms of down-sized rule set, not in skirmish scale. Granted that GW's rule sets are always very prone to add on a lot of rules with each release cycle, but the initial Kill Team was mostly trimming off a LOT of 40k's stuff if memory doesn't fail me.
     
  10. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,029
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    The current iteration of Kill Team, even taking away things like Commanders and Elites, isn't a "simplified" game. There's a bit of a misconception about that.

    Not gonna get more into it, just it's a different way to play. It's got a learning curve to it, but the majority of what happened is that they removed certain units from the army rosters.
     
  11. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    753
    Likes Received:
    1,266
    The problem with the comparison is that there's been at least two (not counting fan products) different things called Kill Team:
    1. The 500-some point game size games a few editions ago.
    2. The "40k-rules but with additions" game where they repackaged 40k squads with terrain and stuff.

    The last time I looked at the Kill Team rules, they were just as complicated as the main 40k rulebook. (And that's before adding in the elite and commander expansions.). Where all the simplification would come in would be just having the vastly reduced number of units, and that only lasts so long...
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  12. SpectralOwl

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    929
    I do think Code One will actually be good for attaining N4's stated goal of improved playability- creating a ruleset of just the fundamentals would probably be quite helpful for getting a fresh perspective to build from again and cut much of the rules bloat plaguing N3. As long as the teams work together, at least.
     
    Abrilete, Kaielden and bladerunner_35 like this.
  13. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    446
    We had exactly the same discussion on our drive back from the Sattelite. I already really enjoy games amongst veteran players in the beginning of a league when e.g. hacking isn’t allowed yet and the small points size makes for a better structured game. I‘d be really curious to see how 300 pts (or the C1 equivalent) games work out if both players are restricted to more standard tools (no posthumans, no sepsitor,...).
     
  14. Wizardlizard

    Wizardlizard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2018
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    66
    This is my fear. I am not a competitive player but the community widely is. I actually believe a simplified rule system will attract most of the competitive gurus and lead to a large number of basic events. No more rules to argue over. Let's call it infinity 8th edition ...
    So noobs will suddenly have their starter coopted by vets
     
  15. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    661

    But a simpler ruleset is by definition easier to balance and will have less janky BS that can be abused (see: shoot enemy in back from the front, stick anyone who engages you onto a wall, use a madtrap to force an aro to get free shots on some enemy, thanks to smoke or white noise, etc etc).

    More complex is usually the antithesis of more balanced, which is why asymmetrical balance in all games is hard to achieve (the fact that GW doesn't even bother trying isn't relevant to us here).
     
  16. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    112
    I, personally, don't think basic rules can make competitive infinity. The whole game is based on like 60% to wound enemy which is considered good chances - which is quite random. In my opinion game is saved due different special rules, like blocking smokes, smart deployments, or deployments from different part of board, weapons which do not need roll to hit, weapons without LOF etc... And now, if you to take away that rules complicity, those countless ways to achieve goals - you'll have to somehow balance smth which is pretty random. It is a hard task. It is much more easier to write a new rule, than provide a balanced fix to existing rules.

    Though I'm still intrigued what way CB will choose to develop Code One. I have a tiny hope, that it would be a vast merging of similar rules. Like the only cc skills - is martial arts, with 2 or 3 levels + level 3 grants berserk? (We have now natural born warrior, martial arts, berserk, assault, guard, protheon :( )
    Like mergin hacking and leave only 2\3 programs, carbonite+redrum+assist fire+white noise?
    Like merging fireteams(haris, triads ...)+control devices+synchronized+that_new_puppet_master_stuff ...mb leavy only synchronized, but with possobility to link usual troops with each other?
    Anyway...dreams..dreams...dreams.... I gues everybody in this topic has its own perfect vision for the future of Infinity ;)
     
    #56 sorniak, Oct 9, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
    oldGregg likes this.
  17. Deathwig

    Deathwig Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2018
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    157
    I wonder if we'll have to wait until gencon next year to get a look at the C1 rules. Because I think a lot of the communitys concerns will either be put to rest or validated only once we get a good look at the rules for C1.
     
    Pen-dragon and DukeofEarl like this.
  18. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    2,666
    I don't expect them to be anything special, just the same kind of simple rules included in the booklets for the Operation boxes but a bit expanded to include a few profiles for all the Factions.
     
  19. holycannoli

    holycannoli Dancing to Kazak Kalinka

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    312
    This seems pretty reasonable vs an outright different game. I agree C1 is going to be closer to this than gw's battle for Vederos experiment which was a very different system.

    Might be more of a tool to make clear weather or not a game had mechanics like spec ops and may lead to better balanced starter sets, starter games, and more importantly may reduce the learning curve for new players who are attracted to certain factions. In my experience more than one new player was interested in Tohaa only to be told they're not first time friendly.

    As for the full game; hopefully this will be an excuse for them to do some cleanup with the full ruleset like the much requested spring cleaning of martial arts vs natural born warrior vs guard vs ikohl.
     
  20. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    949
    Likes Received:
    1,256
    So we're all familiar with the 'PanO was a mistake' meme, but what if the origins of that is how code 1 works?

    The story goes that back in the playtest stage everything had almost the same profile, but they added bonuses to factions.

    Code 1 could do that too, only a few profiles that can be used for all the units in that class, a cut down hacking program list, and a simplified (no ammo types) weapon list...
     
    Mahtamori likes this.