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Infinity and 40k

Discussion in 'Off-Topic English' started by LankyOgreBP, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. LankyOgreBP

    LankyOgreBP Active Member

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    There's not really a general discussion, so I'm not sure where to put this.
    I played 40k many years ago, but I've been playing Infinity for the last 10 years or so. I have played some 40k RPGs on and off over this time though.

    I really enjoy the 40k fluff and lore. I've read a number of 40k novels and I enjoy them. I like a lot of the lore about the Space Marines and Crimson Fists. I also really like a lot of the Space Marine models and think the they have some beautiful models and wonderful aesthetics.

    On the other hand, I love the rules, options, and interactions possible in Infinity. The ARO mechanic is awesome and gives a lot of strategic options. I love the pseudo-RPG options like climbing, jumping, opening doors, and really using terrain. Being able to keep some info hidden and create surprises during the game is a neat mechanic as well. Corvus Belli has a lot of wonderful models and I would probably collect them all if I could.

    With that said. How many of you have experiences with both? What are the pros and cons of each? What do they do different/same for you? With Kill Team out, they can do similar size games/narrative stories, do you think they have overlap?

    I want to keep this as genial and respectful as possible.
     
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  2. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    The core systems of Infinity and 40K are trying to do very different things. Playing a larger scale game with the Infinity rules with vehicles, multiple squads of 10+ models, etc would be incredibly cumbersome. You could do something to capture the essence, but it would require a bunch of alteration. Similarly, the 40K core rules had a number of changes in order to make Kill Team work.

    I know several ex Infinity players who found the system to be overburdened with too many special cases who frequently play Kill Team now. It’s honestly a pretty good system, although I don’t find it to scratch quite the same itch as Infinity. The buy-in is pretty low; you should give it a try if you have any local players who are also interested.
     
  3. saint

    saint Charming, but irrational

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    As Toadchild said Infinity and basic 40K are very different games attempting to accomplish very different things. I love the game and fluff of both for different reasons, 40K mostly because its batshit and over the top insane, Infinity for its more streamlined GiTS vibe. I think i'd rather try and eat one of my Talos than play a 1500+ game with Infinity style interactions however. too many squads and weapon options on each unit for turn one not to take two hours.

    8th edition 40K is the best edition i've played and the best for new people to jump in (tail of 5th, all of 6th and 7th) my local group refers to its the "edition of removing arguments" no wonky system differentiating armored vehicles from everything else nor arguing about what weapon has LoS on my Russ sponsons. Though i will say that this system has been directly responsible for the loss in standing of Space Marines, as the new armor penetration system has hurt them the most and melee also needs a serious rework as its just lacking currently.

    Kill-Team is a good system (relatively) low bar of entry and it can be fast and fun Skirmish game, its not as complicated or involved as Infinity with all the good and bad that entails. also lets you try out an army to get a feel for it before you jump in whole hog. Rumor is that they're going to introduce a similar system for Age of Sigmar, which would also be neat to see.

    Infinity... its fast, its fluid, its tactical, its always your turn. its a good little game with beautiful minis. It has its downsides, the volume of rules, the amount of surprising edge cases that can come up from rarely used skills but its a wonderful game and i'm very happy that i've found it so that my friends and i can take a break from all the grimdarkness.
     
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  4. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    My big gripe about 40k (and Killteam) is how much work and how much money it takes to have access to all of the rules. I hate being surprised by rules at the start of a game, it's what made me give up on 40k (and why I can't play Kill-Team or the other GW games). Too much work to keep up. Infinity's rules have a lot of issues but at least they're more or less in one place (if you don't mind reading the rules electronically).

    The basic 40k mechanics have a lot of potential for small scale RPG-ish stuff but don't have any notion of "You're doing something, I'm going to react" outside of relatively primitive stuff like Overwatch. But the unofficial stuff that preceded Kill-Team and Kill-Team can still do a pretty good job.

    Really small scale Infinity can probably be tweaked into a small scale RPG-ish stuff by messing with some of the skills and making up some more heroic character profiles.

    Disclaimer: Old enough to remember the D1000 charts and Cl.
     
  5. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    My hobby started with 40k ultra marines when I was 14. I owned 5 armies, but Now 20 years later I sold my last 2 a few months back. I enjoyed 40k the most when it gave me different attack vectors (deep strike with imperial guard & Orks appearing from sewers with cities of death). But when the rules were not to my taste in 6th and 7th edition, and you had to buy so many books to keep up, it got me looking in other areas. Warhammer Fantasy became my Primary game for a while, cause it had more tactical movement and interaction with your opponent then 40k. But Age of Sigmar is to me, a shadow of its former glory.

    I now think that Infinity is a natural evolvement of what I liked in my previous game systems, now found in Infinity. With the active reactive system, free rules and armybuilder and stunning models it has replaced GW games entirely for me.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G930F met Tapatalk
     
  6. LankyOgreBP

    LankyOgreBP Active Member

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    Thanks for the responses.
    I'm not sure exactly where I wanted to go with this. I've got half a dozen models or so from when I used to play, but not a lot of time to play miniatures games or RPGs. I much prefer Infinity, but I periodically wonder if I could enjoy anything 40k/Killteam since I enjoy the fluff and models.
    I really enjoy camo markers, superjump, ARO's, and just the freedom of models and interactions available.
     
  7. saint

    saint Charming, but irrational

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    I find having a second game useful, it helps prevent burnout if you can switch freely between a few projects. and Kill-team is definitely where i'd start for 40K, not the main game way to big i buy in if you can't participate somewhat regularly.
     
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  8. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Kill Team is, overall, a much simpler game. I enjoy it when playing with friends who are mostly out of the hobby, as the rules are easy to grasp and the games are fairly short.

    Infinity is my #1 gaming joy though.

    For Infinity, I play:
    Haqqislam
    Druze Bayram Security
    Yu Jing
    Ikari
    (I dabble a tiny bit with Starco and PanO).

    For Kill Team/40k, I still own/play:
    Inquisition
    Tau
    Imperial Guard
    Ultramarines
    Dark Angels
    Imperial Knights
    Sisters

    Lately, I've found myself pretty tired of 40k, and really only played kill team when friends show an interest. Like others have said, the current editions take a lot of time to stay in touch with. Unfortunately, I don't have much time for anything rpg-like, but I think Infinity would be a great place to start something of your own. An update to Campaign Paradiso will come out next year, apparently.
     
  9. Thaddius

    Thaddius Well-Known Member

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    I think Kill Team is a good quick game. Their is simplicity in the base rules though the command cards, unit options and commanders definitely add complexity and depth to the game. It's not infinity though it's not meant to be.

    I want to make a Military Orders/Sister of Battle force. I have a Saint Joan of Arc Celestine conversion with a fire base I would love to do :P
     
  10. Pen-dragon

    Pen-dragon Deva

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    A friend got me started in tabletop wargaming with 40k back in third edition. I personally never cared for the setting or the miniatures, but I did enjoy the tactical game play. However things got a little wobbly towards the end of 5th edition, and the wheels fell completely off the cart in 6th. Even my friend who was a hard core fan of the setting couldn't stand 6th edition, and it was he who suggested we try Infinity. I immediately fell in love with Infinity, its Lore, Its miniatures, and especially its rules. I was glad to dump 40k and eventually got rid of my miniatures. I have dabbled in other games, but none scratch my tactical itch like Infinity

    I have kept a watch on 40k, just out of curiosity, but they seemed to be jumping from bad idea to bad idea. I hear they are doing better today, but what I have read, still looks pretty amateurish. Games Workshop makes quality product, but I don't care for their aesthetics, and certainly don't think the product is worth their premium prices. Combined with their ever cycling books that you have to purchase, 40k is just far to rich for my poor wallet.

    Recently my buddy who originally got me into tabletop gaming has been enticed by Kill Team, and has started to buy Marines again. I told him if he lets me read his rulebook, and lets me use proxies (Awesome Infinity proxies) I will play him, but my expectations are pretty low.
     
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  11. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Like a lot of people I fell out with 40k during 5th/6th and found Infinity during it's first big wave of popularity in mid-N2 and never really looked back. I do still play the 40k RPGs as I have a fair amount of affection for the setting, I'm even running a weekly game of the FFG Rogue Trader.

    I do quite like Bolt Action though, the 40k DNA in the game is obvious (it was written by Rick Priestley and Alessio Cavatore after all) but the whole game hangs together a lot better, the randomised activation works well enough, and it has one of the best pinning/morale mechanics I've yet seen.
     
  12. DrunkCorsair

    DrunkCorsair Well-Known Member

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    For me it comes down to the available opponents.
    I had fun games of 40k and Infinity and not so funny games in both systems that come down to playing with the wrong people.
    I stopped playing 40k at the beginning of the 7th Edition cause i didnt have fun anymore. Discovered the Icestorm box in my Nerdstore and started playing Infinity with other people and hat fun playing games again.

    Now i am in a group of gamers which mostly play Adeptus Titanicus, Star Wars Legions and they brought me back to Warhammer 30k (which always interested me, but never had opponents before cause Forgeworld rules are bad overpowered).

    If you have fun with your friends or other regulars in groups or stores, the game doesnt realy matter.
     
  13. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    One thing Infinity can offer, and the strongest thing over 40k, is its dynamic gaming sequence.

    Our group is growing, small, TBH, around 48 core gamers, but Infinity players are now undisputed 2nd large group in Seoul.

    Unsurprisingly most players are from 40k players. Marines, Chaos, whatever turned these geek fellas on, when 40k players taste Infinity they literally can't go back into 40k again.

    Thats because of the dynamic clash happening on every single minute. In 40k you just have to sit there watching your oppo rolling like 50 dices and rerolls, and again rolling for wounds like 30 dices. But you know you can't sit down and watch the rolls in infinity. Imma beat your 4 shots with my single ARO, punk! Its a real thrill which 40k lacks.

    'Course, 40k offers its grand, epic experiences of its own flavors. Its big, its awesome, and every battle is a saga. Still Infinity gives what it can't.

    And that scratches the point. Its goddamn fun.
     
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  14. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    The two can absolutely co-exist.

    I started off on 40k, I have obscene Tyranid and Chaos armies and have dabbled in other factions. I basically separated from it when it moved to 6th ed, 7th pushed the wedge in deeper. I was excited for 8th but having played it a few time came to the conclusion that nothing my opponent did mattered, I'd just line up my critters, tie up units and then smash them with bigger bugs. The choices in game were my selection of the bugs and how I deployed them before letting them go through the preset action path while rolling enough dice to be able to pre-state the results within about 10 - 15% unfortunately I don't find that very engaging. Where I find it really shines is apocalypse level "beer and pretzel" games, I honestly can't understand competitive 40K anymore especially with the dead forest you have to carry around.

    Infinity I find to be the opposite of that, every model placement and every ARO declaration has consequence and very rarely is certain to work, be it my noctifer hitting or that time my Oniwaban ran into the back of a Marut with perfect suprise and impaled itself on the Maruts sword. If your plan unfolds 100% as you have forseen then you are either having an extremely lucky run or your opponent is absolutely terrible. Player skill is at least 50% of the game.

    As a further reference of attempted cross overs, Warzone ressurection: a game that wanted to be played at 40k scale with units but that attempted the individual model activations and focus mechanics of warmachine and used a dice system similar to Infinity, it fell for me into a pit inbetween the three games, where it wasn't as cathartic as 40k, didn't have the clever unit synergies of warmachine and wasn't as slick as infinity and took the time of playing all three together.

    Am I ever going to get rid of my 40k? No. Everything cycles back to being good for a little while (as shown by the periodic hibernation - reactivation sequence of my Emperors Children) and the other month I played a couple of games of 2nd ed which is as hilarious and OTT as 40k should be, past rulesets are never truely invalidated. Also painting the broad flat plates of a spacemarine is a great pallet cleanser when you've been painting NMM Yu-Jing picking out every individual detail of the undersuit.
     
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  15. Darkvortex87

    Darkvortex87 Combat jump kamikaze

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    Just a question: how can anybody like the lore of 40k?
     
  16. FatherKnowsBest

    FatherKnowsBest Red Knight of Curmudgeon

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    Their novels sell pretty damned well. What are you comparing it to?
     
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  17. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    I can't really speak for recent stuff but for me it's been the same appeal as a lot of 2000AD or the Discworld, being so awful it becomes satire, a dark and rediculous reflection of the present and how human failings can lead to absurdity. It's unsurprising that all the above gestated in the Thatcherite/Reagan era. As an RPG it makes a fun dark mirror to things like Tolkien and Star Wars/Trek.

    The Horus Heresey is different, it's a story of family drama, hubris and man's reach exceeding his grasp, interesting (if overlong and often poorly told) as a story but not as appealing for gaming
     
  18. FatherKnowsBest

    FatherKnowsBest Red Knight of Curmudgeon

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    A lot of the people I know who got into 40k did so because of reading novels first. It's quite the gateway.
     
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  19. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Curiously I've seen it more the other way, people who bounced off the Wargame but liked the fluff so started picking up the books.
     
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  20. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    I can't speak for anyone else, but when I got into that game, its 'lore' was pretty much "homaged" **cough-cough-ripped-off** from everything I'd been reading up to that point.
    Equal parts Dune, Foundation, Starship Troopers, Deathworld, Judge Dredd, Strontium Dog, Rogue Trooper and probably a few others.
    It was also grim darkness to the nth power as a reaction to the world of the 80s that we lived in. Thatcherite/Reagan years.

    If I was to come into it via it's endless stream of novels today, I'd give it a wide berth. Marine fanwank bolterporn for the most part and clumsy fanfic rewrites of paradise lost.
     
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