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Industry development in miniature materials and CB / Infinity

Discussion in 'Off-Topic English' started by Nuada Airgetlam, Dec 30, 2021.

  1. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    We know that half a year ago CB announced Siocast as their new material of choice for larger minis and we know where we are for that. Personal preference and qualms aside, I have something else to discuss and possibly bring to CB attention, since this is a fairly new development.

    The company called Lazy Squire Games has apparently greatly developed the PVC (yes, PVC! the Aristeia corebox or board game "crap" material) moulds and casting. To be honest, seeing not the renders on their Instagram [ https://www.instagram.com/lazy_squire_games/ ] but actual castings, their level of crispness of detail so far available mostly in resin or high quality spincast metal (as well as highest quality HIPS, but let's be real who can match the costs Games Workshop is taking on its chin) has made me want to share and discuss. Potentially, if CB might be forced to reconsider Siocast, this could be a third way?

    Yes, I'm seriously asking to consider PVC. Just take a look. These minis are bonkers.

    pure PVC
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    and in zenithal highlight
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    And it's not that they're just shown face on, they're being handled on YT [ ]

    Where are the mold lines? Where is the flash? :o

    I'm not sure what kind of dark magic LSG pulled off. @Muad'dib any ideas? :)
     
  2. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    Holy shit, these do look amazing. I wonder how do they feel in person. Are they bendy and squishy or nice and rigid.
     
  3. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    From what was said in the video they're "heavier than plastic" (PVC is more dense than resins, that's expected). They showed a horse rider with a lance, the lance was not floppy in the slightest. No bent swords or the like I've seen either. It looks really promising, that's why I made the thread. I wonder what's the progress in the technology.
     
  4. nazroth

    nazroth 'well known Nomad agitator'

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    PVC ain't bad for board games. I have some decent PVC miniatures at home. That being said - PVC is worse to work with than Sciocast and offers no advantages over it. Take note that there's practically no hard angles on the miniatures presented. Sure, there's a lot going on in terms of detail, but it's all rounded on the edges. Plus there are visible cast shifts in places that will make you cringe hard.
     
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  5. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Well, in those pictures the models do indeed look pretty good.
    But we don't know how much work did those minis got before the video, maybe they were carefully cherrypicked and 90% of the batch was trash, maybe there was a group of guys carefully removing flash for hours previously...

    While I still don't like Siocast, from the promotional material we've seen the models seem to come out okey-ish directly from the machines.
     
  6. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Moved thread to an appropriate subforum.
     
  7. Muad'dib

    Muad'dib Well-Known Member

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    PVC is one material that I have very little experience with, since the industries I work with have largely moved away from halogenated plastics (the C stands for chloride/chlorine) for environmental and manufacturing safety reasons. That said, molded details are largely a function of mold design and mold materials - not as much a function of the plastic itself (other than the fact that the melt viscosity has to be low enough to flow into the crevices). I would ascribe most of the issues CB has had with Siocast so far to inexperience in plastic mold design and probably some limitations of silicone tooling with respect to alignment consistency. Silicone molds have the advantage of easier demolding for complex features (the mold can stretch/bend instead of locking onto the mini), but at the cost of lower precision and repeatability

    @Nuada Airgetlam Do you know if they have showed any photos of the models on sprue or the molds themselves? Some of the details are quite deep, so I'd be curious to know how they are splitting the minis and whether they use metal tooling or something else. The level of detail almost reminds me of the way jewelry is made - 3d printed wax master, embedded into ceramic and melted to leave a cavity, followed by casting/low pressure injection then break/dissolve the ceramic to release the part, but I'm not familiar with anyone making plastics using that approach.
     
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  8. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Unaware of any yet, but will post here if I find them. Thanks for the reply! :)
     
  9. redeemer

    redeemer Well-Known Member

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    The minis look impressive
     
  10. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Most of these are pretty clean, it's true. But you can still see some mould lines and flash. For example, the spears (both in hand and on the back) of the spear-thrower in the fourth photo you shared. There are a few other small things I've noticed, like on the antler guy's axe handle or the winged guy's elbow.

    Kind of an aside, but these are incredibly busy models, and it can be hard to spot a small defect among all the greebles and groobles, especially in slightly blurry photos like these. Infinity figures tend to have a lot of open flat spaces, which are notorious for showing even small defects much more easily.
     
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  11. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Pics are blurry because they're stills from YT. View them on a high-res screen (I think the vid has 4k res) and you'll see them in focus.

    Yeah, they're busy, they're that to show off what can be achieved. Yeah, I noticed the defects, but for the usual amount of defects on PVC minis it's looking really good. They may have been cleaned up though, so of course I'd love to see them in person or indepentendly reviewed.
     
  12. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest Day in, Day out. Day in, Day out. Day in, DAY OUT

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    Reaper Bones USA minis are Siocast. However, Reaper Bones Black minis are made using this sort of pvc. I can say from experience that;
    -they do hold detail well
    -they are not bendy/gummy/soft
    -they are nearly as much a pita to clean as Siocast
    -They require many of the same cleaning techniques as Siocast
    -they are more of a PITA to clean than metal, resin or HIPS;
    -they have some of the same problems as HIPS plastics as far as undercuts etc
    -they are almost as rigid as HIPS, but don't feel as brittle(?) and can be straightened by hot water treatments unlike HIPS.

    I like it better than Siocast. However it requires a different sort of casting from what I understand, more like injection molded rather than what CB knows how to do. It would be a perfect material for TAGs and large remotes.

    My Bones Black minis -- the Henchmen and Hirelings Boxed Set, if you want to look for it-- had minimal clean up requirements. They were all one piece castings. About USD$3 per mini, a reasonable price. I would buy again, except that they are currently made in China. I hope Reaper finds a way to bring production back to the USA.

    They came on bases, but not 25mm rounds, so I am slowly re-basing them to be more useful. Once done, I'll be able to see how well they prime and paint. A project for next year.

    Edited for formatting and clarity.
     
    #12 Red Harvest, Dec 31, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
  13. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    Do they cast them or do they outsource? Wild guess is they are in the same boat than some Reaper ranges. Slow expensive boat latelly.
     
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