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IMM-A state and IMM-B state at same time?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by 5th Dimension, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. 5th Dimension

    5th Dimension Member

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    Going to assume I'm a big dummy and missed something here so please feel free to point it out and talk to me like I'm 5.

    So I get both IMM-A and IMM-B states on me (I dont see anything preventing this).

    Ok so all MODs aside, IMM-A says i can't declare any order or ARO other than Dodge, IMM-B says nothing but Reset.

    Am I effectively just a pylon on the table barring an Engineer coming to my rescue and cancelling both states with a WIP roll?

    I mean that seems pretty cool cinematically, like you cant dodge because your systems are shut down and maybe you can't reset because part of the process requires a few actuators moving but they can't because of the glue...

    Alright well if I answered this myself sorry for wasting your time and I will drink a beer as penance. If there is a different answer please let me know and i will drink a beer in your honor.
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the rules explicitly arbitrate what happens when you get both effects, but I think the most logical conclusion to draw is that you do indeed become a pylon and have to wait for an Engineer to fix it (similar to how IMM-1 functions in N3)
     
  3. HellLois

    HellLois What the Hell...Lois?
    CB Staff

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    States in Infinity are cumulative, as stated on page 20 of the CodeOne rules. So yes, you can get both.
    Dont forget to hire an Engineer :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    They're cumulative, but the wording is causing confusion because they also allow certain skills, so the player is left to ask the question whether "except Dodge" and "except Reset" accumulates to "except Dodge and Reset" or if it accumulates to "except nothing". I don't think it's unreasonable to arrive at either answer, even though one is a bit against the spirit of the rules.
    A small request is to have this specific situation as an example of how cumulative works. E.g. "For example, a unit affected by both the IMM-A state and the IMM-B state would be unable to declare any skill, not even those normally allowed by the respective states"
     
  5. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    That would require the States to use 'you can always declare X' or equivalent phrasing. But they're not, they're worded as 'cannot declare any Skill or ARO except X'.

    So there is no way to declare any Skill that fulfils the restrictions of both States.
     
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That is correct in the clinical sense, but I respectfully disagree that this is sufficiently clear in the casual or middle-of-a-tournament-game-argument sense.

    As the age-old example goes; in a bomb-diffusion manual it says "Cut the blue wire - but first cut the red wire", this is perfectly clear but will still get bomb technicians killed simply because it's written in the wrong order or the wrong place so information will get missed when read while pressed for time. In this case the consequences are much lower, of course, but the complexity of addressing it lower still.
     
  7. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    That’s not even vaguely equivalent in structure. And the OP already thought they knew the answer.
     
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  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Did I accidentally insult you somehow?
     
  9. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Somehow feel that this particular combination of effects is intended to exist on purpose and could really use the addition example to make clear that's how it works in the N4 rules.

    Similar as Mono CCWs Flat damage not working with Martial Arts +PH Mods in C1.
    Where the only model in C1 with a Mono CCW is used for the PH Mod example that wouldn't apply to him, because Corvo is using a Mono CCW that isn't affected by PH CC Mods.

    Precisely the "cut the red wire, but cut the blue wire first" situation. The logic is sound, the presentation is a bit counter intuitive.
     
    Mahtamori likes this.
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