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If Dashat can have all the smoke and linked MSV Rui Shi, why can't IA?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by IAGO242, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    That's pretty unfair. Just that one upgrade would make the Invincible Army competitive.

    I'm not too dissapointed with dashat, as I have a bunch of Haqq units so can run them. But we waited so long for IA and now they aren't even special anymore.

    Would giving IA smoke really break them? Don't think so. It won't help them much against Ghazi.
     
    the huanglong likes this.
  2. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Because not everything needs smoke?

    Be interested to hear why you think IA isn't competitive and how smoke somehow fixes that?
     
  3. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    IA is boring, predictable, and half finished; but they're certainly not uncompetitive. And access to smoke wouldn't do much to change that problem for IA.

    5-man linked Rui Shi shouldn't exist at all. In IA, Dashat, or anywhere.
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Because Dahshat don't get a core linked 2 wound BS13 MSV2 sniper that can wildcard into a link team of 11pt members.

    That Haidao profile is the number 1 reason we don't get smoke in IA, it's strong enough as is when you put it in Vanilla with cheap smoke chuckers to make a tower of pain.
     
  5. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Look, I'm too lazy to type out 1 wound NWI Shock Immune effective 2W ARO piece. You know what I meant.

    Sue me.
     
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  7. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    Okay fair lol.
     
  8. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Is this the Pano subforum? Because it sounds a lot like the Pano subforum.
     
  9. XPerson

    XPerson Member

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    As an eternal rival, we always try to outdone PanO in everyway, including on salt imports.
     
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  10. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    After all, the salt production in this forum dropped pretty dramatically about a month Post-Uprising.

    But I really think that Dahshat (man, it is so hard to NOT write that as "asshat") really shouldn't have TacAware profiles.
     
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  11. TJE

    TJE Pulpibeerlover
    Warcor

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    I agree with both
    Salt is everywhere
    And the TacAware was not needed in dashat
     
  12. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    There are more things than that which don't need to exist in Dashat. Like that army itself, probably.

    As for "why?", it's because IA was made with a proper consistent (if probably overly empathized) idea on its design and new mechanics tailored to making army with such a premise playable, unlike Dashat that looks like a brainchild of an armchair minmaxer who decided to make something that works around oldest and dumbest listbuilding paradigm, but spiced by some of the most straightforward and gamey recent additions to the Infinity.

    No thought, just borrowing optimized stuff all over the place and combining it in a way that was unthinkable at times when original pieces were designed and balanced.

    It makes me shudder to think that some people whose opinion and especially experience I trust higher than my own tell me that Dashat isn't even that over the top compared to some other Daedalus additions.
     
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  13. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    Lets wait for inevitable Data of dorminance..
     
  14. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Only liked this post for this. Disagreed with the rest.
    Glad I wasn't the only one.. when I read the title half-way on the front page, I literally thought it was PanO complaining about no Aquilla Guard HMG in link. xD
     
  15. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    I don't think IA needs smoke nor it would make much of an impact in the army having access to it, as IA has all the firepower needed to smash their way through any opposition and orders are too precious in such an elite army to waste them with smoke shenanigans. BUT certainly the army is in a need for some tweaks in order to make it more flexible. Right now IA is punished with excessive weak points which were supposedly added to make up for their "exclusive" order generating mechanics. It just happens that now a NA2 sectorial took half a part of IA basic mechanics, which is the efficiency of Zuyong links with TAc Aw. The other half part is Lt 2 + NCO shenanigans, but I doubt it's enough to actually justify how Dahshat overcomes many of the "weaknesses" imposed to IA.

    Dahshat allows to play Zuyong links while:

    + Overcome IA's CC weakness: Saito, McMurder OP TI edition and Hulang, which finds here the smoke, orders and midfield support it lacks in IA. You can even fit Miranda inside a Zuyong link as a CC deterrent.
    + Effective doctoring and engineering support: Better engineers and GODly doctors (heal your Zuyongs on 17 less! )
    + cheap filler for the link: ABH because let's face it IA's Panguling FTO is not a good option.
    + lots of cheap chaff units that allow to stablish a defensive perimeter around your Zuyong link and for midfield control
    + exclusive Rui Shi + Zuyong fireteam
    + a TAG more useful than Guijia, LOL

    - No KHD access
    - No Lt2 + NCO
    - Worse Lt hidding options
    - No hightech monsters like Mowang and Hac Tao (although they are too costly to fit and Saito and McMurder are good monsters enough)

    Having listed pro's and con's I don't think I all the advantages Dahshat get make up for what the player losses from IA. That's why IA needs to become more flexible. An elite army with limited numbers needs to be able to fit many essential tools in a single group list.

    -- Better access to deployable weapons. If IA must be elite and count on reduced numbers then they need other tools for field control and to defend from CC. Give minelayer to the BS Daoying cheap option so that it finally gets fielded, give mines to a Shang Ji option (as part of the fix Shang Ji need), maybe add minelayer IA exclusive profile to Zencha so it differentiates from Dahshat…
    -- Engineer Gongcheng becomes wildcard up to 1 per fireteam. Giving a cheap filler to the IA HI links and solving the extreme weakness to E/M IA has at current with the bazillion of E/M weapons flooding the armies.
    -- A few more grenade launcher options. Relying in a Zanshi core to access that weapon doesn't make sense and is quite restrictive in list building. Giving a grenade launcher option to Shang Ji or mine dispenser to Guijia would help to alíviate this.
    -- Improve Hulang. In IA Hulang needs to be more self-reliant. Add exclusive IA option with eclipse grenades or limited camo. Maybe even a pitcher option to allow IA to extend a bit their hacking gamestyle in a more aggressive way would be interesting.
    -- Fix Guijia. Allow special duo with a REM in IA, for example a Weibing And give something to Guijia: NCO, DA CC weapon or mine dispenser, … something to make it less boring.
    -- Fix Shang Ji. Improve their focus in CQB. Profile option with mines, option with light grenade launcher, options swapping combi with SMG, maybe DA CCWs and better CC... that would help them to differentiate their role from Zuyong's.

    I think with such changes IA would become more flexible while also having tools to alíviate the burden of their weaknesses, which would still exists, making a more interesting sectorial without unbalancing it, feeling really elite while also a completely different from Dahshat but enjoyable experience.
     
    #15 Janzerker, Apr 5, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
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  16. Sekac

    Sekac Member

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    It is also permissible to pronounce it "Da shat" (past tense of "the sh#t")
     
  17. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I played the smoke+linked Rui Shi on Saturday and it was really powerful but its possibly the biggest trick Dahshat has. IA has a few more.

    I can agree that IA doesn't need smoke however I think something that wouldn't have been bad for them is Nimbus Grenades. Something I feel could have made the Hulang better.
     
    #17 Space Ranger, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  18. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
    Warcor

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    Since Varuna the salt mines migrated to YJ xD
     
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  19. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    I would've loved Nimbus on this guy. Hulang certainly seems better fit for the Dahshat army as a whole (although your button pushing duties can be fulfilled by other infiltrating units).
     
  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Negative, Ghost Rider.

    YJ forums got salty with Uprising, then died down a bit till IA profiles were released, then got salty again, then quieted down after a month or so.
     
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