Are these optimized? :) Examples: Puppets controlled by a basic HI instead and make each highly specialized and mandatory to bring. So instead of the controller choosing his roster, he would be issued them. One really durable CQB REM with grenades, template and CC like 19 NBW and Para CCW -3, one good gunfighter REM and one specialist hacker or Eng REM with hardly a weapon but functions like a Tinbot as well. Give a couple more troops who are close to CC capable and the proclivity to move up the board a bump, give out stealth even to non CC troops and make a couple more CC guys really good. MO doesnt have to have the only Holoprojector HI. Could be light 3/3 defense with a Red Fury, CC and Madtraps. It simultaneously clears board control and sets up it's own. Change Zuyong from Cube and Wounds to REM Pres and Structure... really Terra Cotta constructs... leave regeneration on the ones that have it ;) Jujak FD, BS Attack +1 Damage. Terminator Salvation REM Bikes, fast, agile, accurate. Total immunity, marksmanship, dogged or better, SMGs+1B Total immunity, total reaction, dogged or better, SMGs+1B Total immunity plus a template or berserk with continuous damage on pretty much anything to piss people off and make them jealous.
They don't. Haqq has the Ayar. Got enough of this type of HI, I need other shit like the Yan Huo to get unfucked more than I really need a HI with a holoprojector that sounds like it's trying to be another Hulang. Eh... sounds more Nomads. I mean sure, but really what's needed more for CC to happen more is more linking sources of smoke throwers. White Banner and ISS could really use a character that can bring smoke grenades into a link where its needed. They need actual link options more than they need this to be playable. REM is more Nomad territory. On a tangent I need less hackable stuff in the roster not more.
Haa, alright man, as far as I can tell, people complain Yu Jing is jack of all trades but doesnt accell. I say let YuJing accell at engineering the shit out of things. Since YuJing has use of Smoke Everywhere, make an AVA 1 REM Smoke launcher with +1B available to every sectorial. AVA1 cause its gonna be a pain in peoples ass. And keep it trimmed.
Yu Jing recently received a slew of forgettable troop types who could definitely use some spice. Jujak is definitely one of them, although I've proposed different changes for them. Foremost would be giving them fireteam haris and core in WBA, rather than the utterly stupid "can join a link of shang ji" rule they have now. This alone would put more of them on the table, but I've also suggested they get "Immunity: Continuous Damage" to continue their fire theme. This would make them uniquely a unit that can trigger an ARO from a heavy flamethrower and know that they wont die from it. I feel like Su Jian does this in a cool, less-derivative way. Su Jian is actually a military unit, I'd be interesting to see it in IA. A HSG model would also be cool. I hate total immunity and you should too.
Immunity: continuous is the kind of outside the box thinking CB needs, that's clever man!! I mentioned bikes because someone in another thread did, so I gave them the option in a clever way. Also, I'm actually more for this mechanical animal theme from YuJing. Like basically the ancient lore of China is one of the oldest and is the most well kept in the world. I would like to see transmutation that also functions like Sapper. But it basically turns whatever the unit is into a turret. They could do this where the unit gains total reaction but loses mobility, so it cant even fail a guys roll. It would first have to transform again I'd also like to see some play on the elements, hammer home a single element as every facet about that unit, deployment, mobility, defense and attacks. Air themed would be completely focused on mobility not touching the ground: drop troops, zero G, super jump, any other non terrestrial related mobility skills with good dodge while BS and CC Attacks will be lighter hitting but higher Burst. So +1B BS and CC Attack but -3 or -1B to CC/BS Attacks that can't be countered by a visor or NBW .Weapons like Red Fury and Assault Pistols or +1B SMG or combi etc. Light on ARM and Wounds. Fire themed troops of which your suggestion of using fire ammo while being immune to it is a perfect starting point. Other units can have incendiary rifles like Mendoza or even Spitfires, accompanied with rocket launcher and Vulcan Shotgun. Faster movement speed, surprise attack, glass canon fire and forget, flashy misdirect troops with Continuous damage CCWs and Berserk... Light to Medium durability. Water themed troops are good at indirect and redirect attacks and weapons. Indirect action with deployables, speculative and guided. Redirect is something they have to be focused on with BS, CC and Hacking attacks and weapons applying simultaneous and symmetrical +/- mods not related to any skills. This really enforces the push/pull theme of water. They'll be targeted at face to face rolls and thus wont have any skills contributing to their avoidance of DTWs and indirect attacks from the enemy. It'll look like BS/Hacking/CC Attack +3/-3, +1B/-1B, Shock/Immunity: Shock, etc etc. So if they aren't kitted for BS, Hacing or CC Attacks, that's the better way to attack them. Earth themed troops will be your quintessential tanks, they can take a hit and dish it out and will be able to traverse any terrain, at their pace, with climbing plus and multi terrain minus auquatic and zero G. Not known for anything higher than B3 but their weapons hit direct, hard, fast and accurate with higher B than usual on low burst weapons. Immune to alot: skills like Veteran, Immunity all types, ECM on troops that arent TAGs... NBW and +Damage with no MA. It's important for these element themed troops to have multiple aspects of their profile committed to their theme and only that theme, so at least 2 but preferably 3 to hammer their dedicated theme. The benefit is we will see some very optimized troops and they are slightly different from what we've seen in the game. The animal thing I want them th o branch off into is the 6 main animal styles. Which they've already kind of done but they can do it more and better. Tiger, Crane, Mantis, Monkey, Snake, Dragon. Examples: Monkey- I'd take Hulang, drop the their mimetism to 0, give them Superjump, Climbing Plus, PH13, Dodge+6, Move 6-2. (Maybe Smoke, I'd want it tested) Dragon- Hsien gets BS and CC Attack Continuous Damage and better CC ability. Tiger Soldiiers- Higher CC, add MA and Incendiary chest mines +1 Damage instead of flamethrowers. All fast, furious and in your face... (Maybe Smoke, I'd want this tested also) Crane could have a drop troop loadout out or Superjump on the profile. Mantis, stun ammo use and low CC+MA. Snake, paralysis ammo use a low CC+MA. CB should contract my everytime they wanna theme units.
That'd basically kill them off as a viable unit. They're crutching hard on the mimetism as it is right now to actually be useful. I mean, sure that'd be cool and on theme. They really need updated link options though the most that's what's killing them in ISS. It'd probably be fine, even with smoke. The Rasyat exists and that has parachutist (deployment zone) and eclipse grenades plus a whole CC schtick. Superjump isn't a particularly useful skill at the moment for 4-4 units. It's largely a detriment and just makes units more expensive for no benefit. We've kinda already got a big backlog on units with questionable value that need fixes rather than applying a whole bunch of new units. The Pheasant agents actually somewhat fit what you're describing with with MA1 and Para-6 CCWs, and non lethal weapons such as mad traps and e/mitters, and they're on that list of garbage units that need addressing.
Perhaps mimetism shouldnt be such a crutch and I just suggested dodging on 19s and throwing smoke on 16s. People have been asking for more smoke in YuJing and what is more interesting and suitable than a mobile, stealthy, reliable, resilient smoke thrower that play a crazy koala, remain out of site and flank well with it's new mobility and concealment. It is now unlike anything else in the game and because mimetism is so expensive it cost about the same. So yeah, fuck mimetism. Sure Hsien might need an upgrade in link options, I didnt look at that, I was just thinking of what would make these units interesting to me so that I would want to buy into yujing. I like all that ancient lore shit, if the unit is nothing like it's name sake, well then it's less fun for me so it should change. And no terracotta soldiers dont have to be constricts but they would be damned fucking interesting to be REM Pres and look like regular soldiers and have Structure to be engineered in a unit with a named character engineer and loadouts having regeneration, this could lead to ZuYong being one of the cooler HI in the game and all cause I said "what if" . And yeah super jump is situational, but if movement is an issue, why not also suggest it becomes Move 6-2, I'm surprised it wasnt given it considering YuJing is the HI faction and Crane are elite. Plus superjumping double nanopulser, xvisor and being able to get into position for sensor and triangulated fire is actually all really useful for exploiting holes and angles, avoiding bottlenecks and AROs. When I suggested fulfilling the animal forms I didnt mean make those units right now. However, even if you did more with pheasant, youd have to somehow convince CB to give them more link options too cause Bao is limited, which requires more testing. And from my perspective, I dont care about wild chicken nearly as much as I'd want master crane to take flight.
Because the cost of the package you are suggesting is prohibitively expensive, in short, it would be shit. Sticking super jump and stuff on a unit that is unlikely to be able to take firefights successfully isn't particularly desirable at that cost. It would be an over bloated mess that offers little to any army, and the FD versions would be extremely vulnerable to being destroyed both via hacking and conventional gunfire. As far as adding smoke to links, take a look at Perseus. You're basically offering IA a more expensive, hackable, Perseus who lost his mimetism -6. Nobody wants that, it'd be terrible. You're not talking profile tweaks here, what you're trying to make needs to rebuilt from the ground up. Sure it'd be mechanically good, but is that worth taking a shit all over the established fluff for IA and Invincible units aaaaaaand now I've typed that out and actually remembered how CB has actually repeatedly done just that for less mechanical benefits... Fuck it. Why not?
Not trying to shit on the sectorial, nor the two units. But, I dont like or dislike YuJing so much because it doesnt mean anything to me, it's not interesting. So I started giving ideas as to how to make some units better and interesting. And just hold off on saying my suggestions for Hulang are shit for a second. With it's new mobility and smoke, it can afford to be in LoF at all. Like at all. Prone on a roof, ceiling, wall or lip of a parapet completely out of LoF means no disadvantaged firefight he doesnt want to participate in. Then, in order to maneuver to a favorable angle to remove cover from the enemy while still maintaining cover, they still have smoke. Smoke which can aid the MSV units to take out bigger targets with either that Mmulsti Sniper Rifle, HMG or Spitfire platforms with MSV in IA. I'll admit it might actually be about 3 points more expensive than it is now, but really all they were in my eyes were mimetism troops that still had to struggle to get close to use those D-charges, Koalas, flamethrowers, SMGs and grenades. Would you run a few of your lists at home and add 3 points to the cost of the Hulang and test my suggestions a few times. Remember, they wouldn't be the same old unit anymore so you can deploy them the way you used to, youd have to deploy the the way we all deployed the Zerat, out of LoF, but this way you can get creative. Also, for those FD loads, they were vulnerable to hacking regardless of my suggestions. Maybe that's why they dont have infiltration, so they can be far enough away that even if a pitcher is used the enemy would still have to work to hurt them, and if they're deployed as I've described, the enemy might not be able to at all. Plus, still have koala. Just give it a couple tries, once for using smoke and MSV and once for using smoke to get it self to where it wants to be destructive. I cant tell if you're being sarcastic. I thought 2 wounds and arm3 bts3 was medium durability.
Yes, the mimetic profiles are vulnerable to hacking. Your non mimetic profiles are vulnerable to hacking and getting shot in the face. You're suggesting a 40ish point unit that gets its ass beat by a mimetic BS11 retard skirmisher with a combi rifle. No amount of mobility in the world makes that worth shit. When you're making the unit cost as much as it does it needs to kill things. Nobody in their right mind wants to pay 40pts just for an overly expensive smoke carrier. The unit needs to be combat proficient. A 40pt CC focused unit with no mimetism, no marker state, does not go down as combat effective. The answer is no, that's garbage. I couldn't even see myself formulating a list where that has a reason to be in there let alone it possibly seeing actual playtime on the table. Take that from someone who's actually tried to make crap like a Shikami worthwhile (the answer was no, it sucked). This suggestion is worse than a Shikami.
No that is light for HI but if we averaged all the troops in the game I bet its, 1.5 wounds, 3 ARM and like 2.3 BTS. Guesstimating alot on that last one but you get my point.
I see that you arent addressing what I've said at all. Please explain to me this scenario you have a standing and prone Hulang on the parapet lip of a building that is closest to the center line so that no one has line of fire to them from an equal height. If their is a higher elevation across the table, just make both prone. If a hacker comes with in ZoC it eats the S1 Koala also hidden by the parapet and allowing them to dodge away further or reset while the hack is eating the koala. In order for anyone to get LoF to these guys theyd have to get on the roof with them. Which would be suicide. Why, because PH13 dodging on 19s, E/M and smoke grenades on 16s, and a flamethrower and if someone tries to missile them, again dodging on 19s -3 for the put of LoF attack. The kit I suggested may be a little more than what they are now, but how much is mimetism 6, but its arguably more effective for the rest of what theyve got. Their ability to move 6 inches and dodge 4 inches would almost be guaranteed and when facing selective AROs, dodge on 19 or smoke on 16, well, I honestly think you're messing with me with all the hate you're giving the suggestion. You wont even try it before you bash it, and if that's the case then you shouldnt bash it at all.
which is fuckin dumb and I'm sorry, CB was really trying hard to cut costs while still having as many "HI" in a secotrial as possible. I think they wanted this sectorial to field the most HI at once in the game but where the fuck are all the frenzy and impetuous discounts. I see 2 units in IA that are reasonable to put frenzy on, the Liu Xing and the Mowang, for the Haidao, CB should bite the bullet and give it 3 BTS. I think some sectorials need a whole look over, IA is one of them. I've heard it play fair but I dont see why I would want to play it.
I think the real issue is that they're trying to cut costs while maintaining a "disciplined" army without frenzy units, which won't be a benefit until frenzy starts being a more realistic detriment. *coughfixfireteams* (And yes, it's totally a matter of them being worse because others are better, because there are so many units of both kinds across multiple factions that are affecting this balance issue)
I have, I've told you the unit is an overly expensive mess that doesn't do anything of value to justify its cost, which makes it bad. This isn't really the point of the issue, but you don't get hacked like that. Someone tosses a repeater near you, then you get hacked. The main hacking threats in N4 don't physically walk up to their targets this edition. The main point is: This unit costs 40 points and can't kill jack shit with its gun. Remember that BS11 skirmisher I mentioned? The unit you are proposing is 26% to 16% to fight one in a F2F contest during the Hulang's active turn. If you try and threaten them with the flamethrower to get them to dodge they've got a 1 in 5 to just straight up wound the expensive Hulang if they decide not to dodge and just shoot with the combi. If they're in suppressive fire that jumps to 38% chance to take a wound vs 13% when they had mimetism. I wasn't kidding when I told you this unit is crutching hard on its mimetism value to take fights right now. You can't just pull that off then throw some mobility crap on it and call it a day. It needs to be rebuilt from start to finish so its actually combat effective if you want to make that kind of change. If you want something to be that expensive and yet be that shit of a threat in a firefight, it needs to have the capacity of something like Kitsune to reach CC. It needs things like camo and hidden deployment. You can't have bloody obvious CC threat sit on the table and then expect it to somehow justify costing 40 fucking points when it also has zero hope of fighting its way towards a CC target because it can't shoot shit worth a damn. The threat at a bare minimum needs to be concealed somehow.
Look, because you still didnt admit that it doesnt matter if Hulang have mimetism or mobility in regards to hacking we can't continue to talk about it. Sure I didnt explain it explicitly but I really thought you were smart enough to understand the difference between mimetism and mobility vs hacking is moot. Then you keep bringing up a skirmish with BS 11 shooting them even after I explained that it would be insanely hard for that Skirmisher to even get LoF on them. In the diagram below is a standing and prone silhouette with climbing plus on the parapet. Along with an S1 Silhpuette between them. Giving your BS11 skirmisher the benefit of a doubt, that they are higher than the 2nd floor, they still wont be able to get LoF to the prone Hulang clinging to the wall of the parapet. The idea, was to not have them shot at at all in the reactive turn. And before you even say it, even if a hacker does target them, they'd still be dodging high and they could still clear out deployables. But you made up your mind what you really wanted was a model like Kitsune. That's fine, but Kitsune doesnt have a Koala, a burst 4 SMG, a flame thrower, 3ARM/BTS and 2nd wound and D charges to be even more effective in CC against most troops than their mono ccw. There isn't anything wrong with my suggestion at all, you just want something else. That's fine, but we are done here cause there isnt anything constructive to be done and I dont actually have a dog in this fight. So good luck to ya and again I sincerely hope CB gives IA the MO rework treatment.
