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Ideal Terrain for the Invincible Army

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by SpectralOwl, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. SpectralOwl

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    A few months back, I began collecting odds and ends to begin constructing a set of Infinity terrain of my very own. Once 3rd Offensive was revealed, I decided to wait for the release of Invincible Army to start putting it all together, as the sectorial looked to be exactly what I wanted. Now we have the profiles, I find myself asking the question; "how do I build a terrain set to make the best possible use of these profiles?" The sectorial has several severe weaknesses and great strengths that are giving me grief when it comes to table design.

    Some early thoughts:
    The Haidao has Zero-G Terrain, the only non-Multiterrain terrain skill in Yu Jing. I should exploit this.
    8-Inch Cubes: Invincible Army is going to be ruined by E/M Speculative Fire and Hacking. Putting big cubes in the way should help mess with ZoC and trajectories, and provide sniper nests.
    Model counts are usually going to be low, with great long-range firepower. Maybe make it more open?
    Liu Xings can take a hit, Landing Areas will be fairly good.

    Anyone else have any thoughts about building terrain to wring the utmost value out of the Invincibles?
     
  2. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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    1 crate in the center. Good thing we have all this armor!
     
  3. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    Building your own table to actually benefit the play style and cover the weaknesses of your own army? That's next level douchery in my eyes.

    If I ever found out my opponent did that I'd flat out refuse to play them on that table again.

    Git gud, stop "cheating".
     
  4. SpectralOwl

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    I have full intentions of finding opponents who actually want to play against me again, and there is a rule in Infinity that requires players to agree on terrain before the game begins, so I can't become a full-on evil munchkin anyway. However, I am also flat sick of paying points for skills that never see use- MRRF, one of my other factions, pays for Multiterrain on its line infantry. If the board has no Difficult Terrain, it's a bigger waste than the CC on the Zhanshi.

    Furthermore, the current game is warped by the fact 2 out of 3 tables are moderately dense urban environments with no scenery rules whatsoever, while CB actually apparently does treat them as being reliably present- see the fact that MSV is substantially pricier and less widespread then the equivalent visual modifier equipment or skills, and, you know, the fact that terrain skills still exist.

    My current plan is to build a board that fits my playstyle and army, because I can go anywhere else to find one that doesn't. I can sure as hell tell you I wouldn't mind an Ariadnan player bringing a board to a tournament with lots of Jungle and Mountain terrain and plentiful low cover, or a Corregidor player bringing one with lots of blind corners, Zero-G and long lanes (these are just informed guesses, please don't go off topic saying I've got this wrong), because their sectorial lists are built with those conditions in mind and not being able to use them puts those players at a disadvantage. What I would consider going too far is something like White Noise covering the whole table surface from a Shasvastii player, or an Ariadnan player putting the board under a ceiling to keep out AI beacons and AD:3+. That's just taking away from the enemy's options and enjoyment, and I 100% play this game for my own and my friends' enjoyment.

    To frame my original practical question in a more accurate light, I am looking to create a table that will allow me to use the full capabilities of the Invincible Army in a fair and enjoyable way, without wasting points on useless skills, and in a manner that will not hinder the progression of the game if IA is not chosen by both players. I will also welcome any truly preposterous and unfun suggestions from a theoretical point of view, as they expand the general body of knowledge of the faction.

    To provide an example with the 8-inch cube idea in the OP: Filling the map with these would be ridiculous, as it would waste the points spent on LGLs, offensive Hackers and HGLs completely. This is unfun. However, having one just in front of the DZ, and a thin sniper tower in the other DZ, would be much more interesting, as the tower would be able to deny cover to anything on top of the cube, but the cube itself could protect a few models from Spec. Fire or Pitchers without order investment in movement, while the tower cannot. This creates a more substantial conundrum after the LT roll-off, and affects the gameplay in an interesting way that does not create bad list choices or ruin fun.
     
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  5. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of climbing walls for your rock-monkey Zencha to enjoy?
     
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  6. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    The good terrain for the Invincible Army is whatever terrain the party wants it to seize in the name of the State-Empire!

    Overall the only thing you really want with IA are buildings so you can hide from E/M grenade launcher if necessary. Also not too many low-visibility zones unless you miss playing the rui-shi every single bloody damn game.
     
  7. SpectralOwl

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    I am also a little worried about CC Warbands and Skirmishers. Nearly anything they can target is a trade up in IA, and only the Hulang and possibly the Hac Tao and Shang Ji have decent odds of holding them off. Minelayer Daoying is going to be key, especially with FD1 to get the mines up in front, since the exact terrain best at keeping E/M Launchers away is also ideal for CC.
     
  8. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    One thing with IA, i think, is that you shouldn't hesitate to let some guys with their head outs for ARO. We have some disposable remotes, and a bunch of scary HI with heavy weapons strong enough to vaporize anything not geared to face them. You really don't want your opponent to get too close, or at least not with enough orders to do some real harm.
     
    #8 Sedral, Nov 30, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    That's how it works around here. Somebody wants to play on something, so they build a table for it. Nothing douchebag about it.

    Local Ariadnan player wanted to play on a forested table, so he's been building his own for the last few months.

    Few weeks ago Pan-O player said they were sick of playing in cities and wanted to play games set on a ship like space hulk. I told him if you want it, build it and people will play on it. We've got an MDF laser cut prototype sitting in the LGS now.
     
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  10. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, as long as both sides can benefit in some way (with the right list) then it isn't so much of a big deal. And, thematic boards are a handy way to attract new players...
     
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  11. AngryPanda

    AngryPanda Well-Known Member

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    But you are wrong about those "informed" guesses and that is kind of important. Someone may build a themed table (Jungle, Space Station, etc.) but also making sure it will be best for their specific weapons, protect from their specific weaknesses, etc. is next level ThatGuy-ing.
     
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  12. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    The thought did occur to me that a short league with 'home' and 'away' fixtures might be nice, but really that depends on your group, and whether you know your friends well enough to make sure they have a good time.

    I wouldn't want to try it competitively tho..
     
  13. SpectralOwl

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    I am actually tempted to do a ship or station myself. Paint up a few Zhanshi as crew, go heavy on Haidao, Mowangs and Zhencha and challenge one of the local Corregidor guys to a game with gravity controls. Plus, ships and stations have hull exteriors perfect for Climbing Plus, which should be fun for the Zhenchas, Zonds and Su Jians in the community.
    Aint that the truth. I can't tell you how many times we have to fix up the Infinity boards at the FLGS, they're too dense but they are also hand-painted cities and shipyards that make the Warhammer boards look like Happy Meal toys, and they are set up right in front of the store windows for this reason. And every week, someone playing Necromunda or Kill Team messes them up. This is honestly about a third of the reason I'm making my own.
    Which is why I was very clear to state in the following paragraphs to state that I plan to optimise the board only to the extent that it lets me use the full capabilities of the army, and protects against weaknesses only in that they must require a few orders of movement from DZ to exploit. Basically, I'm looking to create the optimal fair IA board. Thanks to the way Infinity is designed, there is almost no way to create a board that allows all potential lists to use their full capabilities in perfect balance. As such, the best you can do is look after your own, not screw over others to unfair degrees, and encourage others to make terrain that lets them use their own armies' more situational abilities so that everything works out fair in the end. At least that sounds more fun then 10 boards worth of city, which is what the local tournament looks like at the moment. Trying to build two lists to cope with potential forests, interiors, canyons and asteroid fields honestly sounds like a lot of fun to me, so that's what I hope to achieve.

    Back to the original topic, I am thinking that destructible environments will be a lot of fun with IA thanks to the Yan Huo and friends Haris. Nothing else in the game can drop that much anti-materiel firepower on a target in as little time. Perhaps objective rooms with locked doors could be fun, getting people to bring along the Hackers or explosives before the Camo Specialists can do their jobs. Or just give sniper towers STR. Sure, I could discover the Swiss ML. Or, I could just blow up the tower it's sitting on!
     
  14. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there is anything wrong with building a board to take advantage of terrain skills. I'm gonna make a board with some waterways for units with aquatic terrain.
     
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  15. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Honestly, terrain zones are rather cool IMO.

    Would be neat if people used them more often. :/
     
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  16. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member

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    Eh, Infinity terrain rules are sort of hit or miss. I tend to find that whenever I pop a terrain zone or two down, it suffers from WFB Terrain Syndrome. People without the skills to utilize it will just ignore it, and it effectively becomes dead space on the table. T

    But in general, people avoiding special terrain isn't a huge issue. From what we can tell, terrain specialist rules are free and largely a matter of flavour for the purposes of special scenarios determined in advance. Springing a primeval jungle, or a storm, or high mountains on someone in a random pick up game sucks. But running it in a pre-determined scenario where everyone tailors lists to deal with it? That can be fun.

    That's the main issue with Infinity terrain rules. They can have a massive impact on things and the skills dealing with them can be quite narrow and not widely available which can adversely impact one side more than the other if used across the whole table. So I think it is best saved for special scenarios where folks can build lists up using the known variables to make informed list choices.
     
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  17. Usashi

    Usashi Well-Known Member

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    Personally, when I think about ideal terrain for the Invincible army for some reason half burned set of mototronica or Kurage station scenery packs come to my mind ;)
     
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  18. SpectralOwl

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    Best I can tell, ideal way to handle this is have 1-3 small paths opened up by terrain skills. Most units won't be affected, and those that will most likely have Multiterrain since Camo Infiltrators nearly always do. However, once in a while it will open up an opportunity for something else to make an unexpected move, giving that tiny cost value.

    Not sure about regular terrain skills, but a Metro pays for Multiterrain, or -1 BS and -1 WIP from a Kazak is -1 point.

    As far as ideal themes go, I think a burning Narooma Hospital might be better. My regular opponent plays Tohaa and ALEPH, and we haven't burned down an ALEPH base yet. Might have to try it next campaign.
     
  19. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    Good terrain for IA who was sent to resolve the Uprising would be the JSA terrain, but with every building on fire, cars on fire, cats on fire, etc.

    I haven't read 3rd Offensive to see if IA in that setting did something different or particular, or if it was set in cold mountain or thick jungle or aquatic area.
     
  20. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    yep. same!